Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Openning in time for Pan Am is obviously not possible - especially now - so there is not much point in rushing to finish 6 or 12 months early.

This may actually make be better because it would have looked foolish if the line openned a few months after the Pan Am games when York U is a prominant venue.

Only in Toronto would a full roll-out of Presto and the opening of the biggest subway extension in 30+ years a year AFTER the Pan Am Games be considered the better scenario, optics-wise, versus narrowly missing them (given that actually having them done FOR the games is just too wacky to have ever seriously pursued.)

 

[nfitz]

Only in Toronto would a full roll-out of Presto and the opening of the biggest subway extension in 30+ years a year AFTER the Pan Am Games be considered the better scenario, optics-wise, versus narrowly missing them (given that actually having them done FOR the games is just too wacky to have ever seriously pursued.)

Presto is supposed to be mostly functioning for games. All subway station should be done.

And what about London? The completion of the London Overground circular line only opened in December, 5 months after the games. And the Crossrail line that connect the main Olympic facility with other Olympic venues and Heathrow airport, and was once considered an essential part of an Olympic bid, won't open for another 5 years or so.

The Spadina extension wasn't part of the Pan-Am bid. The transit lines that were part of the bid (the airport link, and the extension of GO service to Hamilton) will be completed.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I know it wasn't part of the bid but it does stop at one of the major venues. There's just an overall lack of synchronicity, though I concede I was using some hyperbole.

On a lighter note, here's how the York U station is looking these days.

 

[Transportfan]

Presto is supposed to be mostly functioning for games. All subway station should be done.

On the subject of the TTC rollout of Presto, won't that mean the adoption of time-based Presto transfers and thus the end of the double fare when crossing Steeles?

 

[Markster]

On the subject of the TTC rollout of Presto, won't that mean the adoption of time-based Presto transfers and thus the end of the double fare when crossing Steeles?

No, of course not! Presto has been designed specifically to be able to handle the myriad of different fare systems throughout Ontario!

When the TTC adopts Presto, nothing will change. At first. Presto will allow them to move towards integration and improvements, but it will not force them.

 

[rbt]

On the subject of the TTC rollout of Presto, won't that mean the adoption of time-based Presto transfers and thus the end of the double fare when crossing Steeles?

No. Changing the fare technology will not automatically change the political and funding difficulties that created those policies in the first place.


Given that Presto staff refer to TTC specific difficulties, I would assume time based transfers aren't going to occur at launch on Presto.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Hey, a lot can happen in 3 years. Maybe by then Metrolinx will be getting $2.5 billion a year from new taxes, and amalgamating all the GTA's transit agencies to ensure regional objectives are met. Or, you know, it could be the same ineffectual mess it is already....

 

[nfitz]

On the subject of the TTC rollout of Presto, won't that mean the adoption of time-based Presto transfers and thus the end of the double fare when crossing Steeles?

It will likely mean the adoption of time-based Presto transfers; various TTC staff have mentioned this, including Brad Ross in his chat on reddit yesterday, when he said that "Time-based transfers is being looked at, yes." in answer to once question, and when answering another question "Will the TTC consider adopting a time-based transfer system?" he said "Yes, PRESTO will allow us to rethink our entire fare structure".

TTC is preparing a report on Fare Policy and PRESTO Implications which should be out just before the July 24, 2013 TTC meeting.

As for double fare crossing Steeles ... that's a completely different issue. Presumably you will still need to pay both TTC and YRT fares. TTC only operates north of Steeles under contract to YRT.

 

[Transportfan]

No, of course not! Presto has been designed specifically to be able to handle the myriad of different fare systems throughout Ontario!

When the TTC adopts Presto, nothing will change. At first. Presto will allow them to move towards integration and improvements, but it will not force them.

So then the TTC will only adopt the Presto farecards, not the transfers.

 

[nfitz]

So then the TTC will only adopt the Presto farecards, not the transfers.

The TTC is still studying how to change it's fare system when Presto is implemented. I'm not sure why Markster is saying that there won't be changes ... because that's not TTC is saying! But whatever changes are made are up to the commissioners, and while staff is recommending changes, who knows what will happen.

 

[leopetr]

So then the TTC will only adopt the Presto farecards, not the transfers.

Both Mississauga and York Region have Presto and time-based transfers within their respective regions, but you still need to pay a new fare when moving from one region to the other.

It will (hopefully) be the same with the TTC: Time-based transfers within the 416, instead of the current byzantine TTC system where walking a stop or grabbing a coffee invalidates your transfer.

 

[Markster]

The TTC is still studying how to change it's fare system when Presto is implemented. I'm not sure why Markster is saying that there won't be changes ... because that's not TTC is saying!

I'm not saying that there won't be changes, I'm saying that Presto does not require changes.
Basically what rbt said. Presto is only a medium. The fare structure is a legacy political/operational creation.

Presto will certainly allow them to look at changing how things operate, and hopefully will move things towards a more sane Zone system.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not saying that there won't be changes, I'm saying that Presto does not require changes.

Ah ... generally I'd agree - and that's what they've said. Though I'm not sure that would actually true when they start trying to program in TTC's arcane transfer rules ...

How would you program Presto to handle transfers from a 504 to a 22 that happen, when suddenly a 504 northbound on Broadview is sent east on Gerrard to Coxwell loop, because of an accident just north of Gerrard and Broadview. A previously unallowed transfer (direct from a 504 to a 22, without taking a 501, 502, or a 506 in between) suddenly becomes allowed.

 

[smallspy]

How would you program Presto to handle transfers from a 504 to a 22 that happen, when suddenly a 504 northbound on Broadview is sent east on Gerrard to Coxwell loop, because of an accident just north of Gerrard and Broadview. A previously unallowed transfer (direct from a 504 to a 22, without taking a 501, 502, or a 506 in between) suddenly becomes allowed.

Presto doesn't care - at least, it doesn't now when you're using it on the other 905 systems using Presto now. It doesn't care which routes you are transferring from or to, but rather only that you are doing it within the time allowed.

Unless the TTC decides to go with a completely different fare system, I can't see that changing when they begin to roll out the system.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[car4041]

Presto doesn't care - at least, it doesn't now when you're using it on the other 905 systems using Presto now. It doesn't care which routes you are transferring from or to, but rather only that you are doing it within the time allowed.

Unless the TTC decides to go with a completely different fare system, I can't see that changing when they begin to roll out the system.

nfitz's point was that the TTC's *current* transfer rules would be very difficult to implement on Presto.