Toronto Sherbourne Common, Canada's Sugar Beach, and the Water's Edge Promenade | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto | Teeple Architects

I live in St. Lawrence and call Pam McConnell's office a lot to complain about things and they do call me back. I find her office staff pretty good to deal with. Also Adam Vaughan had a really good office staff who always called me back and were great to deal with. Don't ask me about Rob Ford's office staff because it ain't a happy story.
 
Torontovibe said:
I live in St. Lawrence and call Pam McConnell's office a lot to complain about things and they do call me back. I find her office staff pretty good to deal with. Also Adam Vaughan had a really good office staff who always called me back and were great to deal with. Don't ask me about Rob Ford's office staff because it ain't a happy story.
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But Rob returns thousands and thousands of calls a day, says Doug.
 
One of these trees are not like the others...

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Yes. If it's a different species, then that's shoddy replacement work that's unacceptable for such a great public space. But it might just be a farm-fresh tree with a differently shaped canopy that will eventually grow like the others.
 
salsa said:
Guaranteed to live for one year I suppose.
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Yes, I have written to Forestry again and attached the very telling photo! I still cannot believe that City staff approved cutting trees down. Crazy! Here is the email that I(and others) received:

This e-mail will outline Toronto Urban Forestry's involvement in the tree removal and replanting which occurred as a result of filming at the Waterfront Promenade.
Urban Forestry had been in discussions with the Film "Pixels" since mid- May. At that time we informed the site manager for Pixels that filming their proposed scene would require that they have plan in place to reinstate the trees back to a state very similar to what was existing, including providing a warranty for their successful establishment.

To meet this requirement, the film company hired UCC Group, the company currently engaged by Waterfront Toronto to continue the Promenade installation east from Sherbourne Common. (For more information about UCC Group: www.uccgroup.com )

UCC Group has completed the reinstallation and is responsible for follow up maintenance and warranty.
Urban Forestry has inspected the installation and the work appears correct overall, and the trees are very close in size to the trees removed.

The tree furthest from the lake is in good condition, with leaves lightly tinted likely due to being held in a nursery prior to the installation. Leaves are expected to revert to normal in the next growing season. The tree closest to the lake is visually vigorous, and less tinted than the other, however it does have some trunk damage (not immediately discernable to the eye) that would typically lead us to ask for replacement. We are working with UCC to arrange this replacement which could occur this autumn or next spring. We will be guided by the availability of an appropriate replacement.


Urban Forestry will continue to monitor this situation to ensure that restoration is satisfactory. The typical warranty period is 2 years. The warranty is released at the 2 year point following an approved installation provided that the trees are well established and in good health. (ie: the warranty period starts at the point that Urban Forestry approves the installation)

FYI, attached is the 7 August image taken on the date of the inspection noted above.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you wish to discuss the matter further or have any questions.

Regards,

Arthur Beauregard
 
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One thing I love about kids is their brutal honesty and candour when assessing a claim or description. My daughter and I were riding by Sugar Beach and the first thing my young daughter says is, this is not a beach, there's no water entry, all this is a field of sand, which in her mind is the worst part of the beach since you're burning your feet or trying to protect yourself from the sand by sitting on a towel.

I can just hear Sugar Beach's designers mimicking every evildoer from Scooby Doo, "I would have fooled everyone if it wasn't for those meddlesome kids!"
 
Admiral Beez said:
One thing I love about kids is their brutal honesty and candour when assessing a claim or description. My daughter and I were riding by Sugar Beach and the first thing my young daughter says is, this is not a beach, there's no water entry, all this is a field of sand, which in her mind is the worst part of the beach since you're burning your feet or trying to protect yourself from the sand by sitting on a towel.

I can just hear Sugar Beach's designers mimicking every evildoer from Scooby Doo, "I would have fooled everyone if it wasn't for those meddlesome kids!"
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Well, she can always build sandcastles or play in the splashpad instead :)

AoD
 
Admiral Beez said:
One thing I love about kids is their brutal honesty and candour when assessing a claim or description. My daughter and I were riding by Sugar Beach and the first thing my young daughter says is, this is not a beach, there's no water entry, all this is a field of sand, which in her mind is the worst part of the beach since you're burning your feet or trying to protect yourself from the sand by sitting on a towel.
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Another thing about kids is their black-and-white take on what they've learned. You can call it brutal honesty, or you can call it narrowly focused or unsophisticated. That's not a personal knock, it's just an acknowledgement that our ability to see meaning becomes deeper as we get older. That doesn't mean we are less honest.

42
 
interchange42 said:
Another thing about kids is their black-and-white take on what they've learned. You can call it brutal honesty, or you can call it narrowly focused or unsophisticated. That's not a personal knock, it's just an acknowledgement that our ability to see meaning becomes deeper as we get older. That doesn't mean we are less honest.

42
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Good point. For kids, sand and water must touch on a beach. But no two foods on their plate can.
 
ksun said:
+1, chicago's expensive waterfront is simply grand and spectacular for both locals to enjoy and tourists from all around the world to marvel at. Toronto's waterfront is more of a neighbourhood park for families to kill some time on summer weekends. There is no beauty there. Yes, it is cheaper but it really does little (if not hurt) for the image of the city.

Speaking of quality, I don't really see much really high quality element here. People love sugar beach and sherbourne commons, I am glad they happened too but for the city of Toronto, I will play the devil's advocate and say it is simply not enough. We are still thinking too small and our central waterfront from Sherbourne to Spadina simply isn't attractive. We are simply not ambitious. We have only one waterfront by downtown and it should wow people from New York, Chicago, Shanghai, Paris and Dubai. Does ours do that? No, people end up be underwhelmed, does it work, of course. I am sure families coming from the suburbs will enjoy it, but it is not something international travellers will talk about after visiting Toronto.

Even after the whole waterfront project is done, it will still not be a beautiful place (lively? yes). Tacky condos and cheap recreation stages are still there. There will still be no unique and magnificent features that will be photogenic and take your breath away. I am sure it will look a lot better but just not something one expects from a city like Toronto.

But Toronto seems to OK with something that "works well", so what I personally think really doesn't matter.
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I agree. I think often in Toronto, we do things just to say we have done them or have one without of a thought of how it looks or the impression that it gives off. This is evident in so many things done in this city from parks to our roads to our public squares to everything. Our execution for things like public realm is downright terrible. It's like the only concern here with doing things in this city is to do it as cheaply as possible which is evident when you look at this city. It's even evident in the many condos going up in this city. Most all look the same with no distinguishing difference between them and only a handful that stand out. We don't look to do stuff here which the whole world can notice. We are too timid.

A good example is Canada Square and Ontario Square. It's like they built it just to say they built a public square. It looks so outright generic and looks like it can be anywhere. There's nothing outstanding about it. You would think that with such names, we would get something more impressive. The same thing with Nathan Phillips Square, even with the new renovations, Dundas Square, all pretty much meh. Nothing special about them. Millineium Park cost $475 million. That's a whole lot of money to spend but they made sure they spent and it has gotten rave reviews around the world. They made sure they did it right and it was executed perfectly. They didn't just do it half-assed and call it a day.

But like you said what your personally said doesn't matter. The people and politicans have their mindset on city looking this way. What I find annoying is when the politicians, media, and people here choose to delude themselves into thinking that they are on the level of New York, London, Paris, and other cities. They must be living in some bubble.

lead82 said:
I agree, that our Waterfront will never look as stunning as other major world cities, but you must remember that Toronto is a World City wannabe. Toronto citizenry and it's politicians are timid and have a small town mentality. It prevails across Canada. Toronto's current mayor is the epitome of cheapness. If it was up to him we wouldn't be 'wasting' any money on any waterfront improvements. The work that has been currently been done will be the best public space that Toronto has. Compare the quality of Queen's Quay, Sugar Beach to the Bloor Street transformation. These are all small slivers of public space, but at least the new waterfront areas are going to be connected and will have a waterfront promenade with mature trees.

Toronto can never get Chicago's waterfront, but frankly I wouldn't want it. Chicago's is great for tourists who travel there, but in my view, outside of Millennium park, the waterfront is fairly bland and tacky also. Sure it's got great museums, but it's meant for tourists not locals. Plus, there is not much to do in Chicago's waterfront area except to stroll around. There aren't any restaurants outside of Navy Pier.

Toronto needs to define it's own identity. We will have a dense waterfront and the new East Bayfront neighbourhood I am hoping will define us. If it is built well, we may have a fantastic waterfront street lined with patios and restaurants. Our waterfront will be busy, happening, and it will become a local destination. Toronto was never destined to be a tourist town, but our waterfront will be just that, it will be for Torontonians to use and enjoy. I hope that the improvements continue after the current set of projects, since Waterfront Toronto is due to run out of money in 2017 and will need a progressive mayor and council to let it borrow money against future construction so it can continue it's great work to date.

I'm excited to see the East Bayfront completed and Queen's Quay boulevard remade. If the same change gets applied to Queens Quay East, we will have a beautiful main waterfront street compared to the ugliness that it was before the transformation.
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I agree so much with you. Toronto is too timid. It's like we lack the ability to bring fourth new bold ideas and vision which the wider world can take notice of and not just the people here in Toronto. You are right in saying we have a small town mentality. Some of the debates you find in city hall you would expect to find in Barrie or some other small cities or even some small towns and not in a city of this size. Some of the big news coming from City Hall include the types of garbage bins we should have and other trivial matters which shouldn't even be debated to the extent that they are. We elect officials who lack the vision and the "balls" to help us debate on how to fund and improve on issues such as transit, equality, taxation, public spaces, public realm, our waterfront, eqaulity and how to make our city more liveable. These should be the big issues we should be debating more and not on what kind of garbage bin or racoons.

We need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking we are some sort of world city. We aren't there yet. Sure we may get on some of these best and most livable cities to live in lists but after visiting some of these cities we aren't on their level yet. We need to learn from these cities and even look to some here in Canada on how they are handling issues. We don't live in a bubble.
 
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