Toronto Ryerson's Mattamy Athletics Centre + Loblaws at the Gardens | ?m | ?s | Ryerson University | Turner Fleischer

Darkstar416 said:
Perhaps if they are keeping it a mostly intact hockey arena the costs are much lower. Converting it into something else (i.e., lecture halls) is where the costs would have skyrocketted?

Just a guess.
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The seating could be retained for perhaps one side of the arena (say, the wider and deeper seating areas on either the east or west side of the arena) for their hockey team and special Ryerson events then the remaining areas could certainly be redesigned with walls and separators for lecture halls. They're using the AMC cinemas as lecture halls now in the morning (I'm not sure if they are still using the Carlton cinemas or not) so this would seem such a natural thing to do. They could design the lecture halls to the size that they need and they would be available at any time of the day or night unlike the current AMC cinema arrangement.
 
I wonder how much of a basement does MLG has - and if it is insufficient, whether it is possible to do a 'dig down' like Union Station for some kind of big box market/retail.

AoD
 
Darkstar416 said:
Perhaps if they are keeping it a mostly intact hockey arena the costs are much lower. Converting it into something else (i.e., lecture halls) is where the costs would have skyrocketted?

Just a guess.
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There may be issues with bringing the building up to code, which would be very very costly. Energy consumption would be a high cost operational issue unless serious capital was sunk into energy efficiency upgrades. Also as far as I know there has been virtually zero general/preventative maintenance over the past decade - sections of the building are literally falling apart.

Conversions are highly risky and very expensive. I know of a few projects, in some cases expensive high-profile loft/conversion projects where even despite the high costs of the units for consumers that the developers lost their shirts are have sworn off doing a conversion ever again.
 
Mike in TO said:
There may be issues with bringing the building up to code, which would be very very costly. Energy consumption would be a high cost operational issue unless serious capital was sunk into energy efficiency upgrades. Also as far as I know there has been virtually zero general/preventative maintenance over the past decade - sections of the building are literally falling apart.

Conversions are highly risky and very expensive. I know of a few projects, in some cases expensive high-profile loft/conversion projects where even despite the high costs of the units for consumers that the developers lost their shirts are have sworn off doing a conversion ever again.
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Sadly, your probably correct.

There has been some money spent on keeping the building up to code as I frequently see vans or trucks for contractors such as plumbers, HVAC trades, fire system company (Siemens?) etc. parked out back so to be fair to Loblaws they're spending some money maintaining the place. There's also been cosmetic improvements in the lower lobby areas. At one point I could see parts of the ceiling collapsing through the upper windows along Church Street perhaps from a water leak/burst pipe or something. I noted that those areas were repaired and that the south lower lobby areas that we had access to at least year's Nuit Blanche were in good condition and appeared to have been painted within the past few years.

The Gardens is also occasionally rented for fundraisers, corporate events, film/TV shoots so I think it's fair to presume that a good portion of the building is safe to be in and reasonably maintained.

I'm just trying to be a little optimistic!

Finally, one day last spring the door leading to the ramp to the basement from Wood Street was open so I took a chance and walked down. I got stopped shortly after I turned the corner to go down but it looked like a loading area at the bottom, it was not well lit and I had just come out from the sun so it was hard to make out but it looked liked a fair sized space down there. The only times I recall this area being used was to shuffle the concert performers in & out in limos back when I used to go to concerts there in the late 70's & early 80's. Surely it serves other purposes as well such as food/beverage deliveries and the like.
 
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ShonTron said:
Ahh, AoD beat me to it.

I wonder if having Ryerson's hockey team play there would violate that ridiculous MLSE terms of sale that prohibits sports or entertainment use of the building, as to not compete with the ACC or Ricoh Coliseum.
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I dont think it will. Ryerson was willing to go at it alone at first, but backed out because it would have been too costly to renovate Maple Leaf Gardens... not because they wouldn't be allowed to use it as an arena. I don't think Ryerson's hockey team will be any competition to any of MLSE's teams.
 
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...gardens-re-open-as-both-rink-and-grocery.aspx

Talks could see Maple Leaf Gardens re-open as both rink and grocery
Posted: September 16, 2009, 6:46 PM by Rob Roberts



By Laura Blenkinsop, National Post

Maple Leaf Gardens could re-open as both a rink and a grocery store if all goes well in talks between Ryerson University and Loblaw Companies Limited.

Ryerson confirmed today it is again eyeing Maple Leaf Gardens as a potential site for its new athletic centre. But that doesn’t mean the grocery store Loblaw intended to build in 2004 when it bought the historic building from Maple Leaf Sports and
Entertainment is out of the picture.

“Loblaw Companies Limited is in discussion with Ryerson University regarding the possible future joint use of Maple Leaf Gardens,†Inge van den Berg, senior vice-president of corporate affairs, said in an e-mailed statement.

Councillor Kyle Rae, who represents the area, called the potential joining a “win-win†for downtown Toronto.

“My sense is that Loblaw is thinking of opening a grocery store and Ryerson wants to open a hockey rink,†he said. “That’s great. There’s not enough ice available in the downtown for skating.â€

Paul Lewicki, historian and an executive of the Toronto Marlboros, said the partnership would be great for Ryerson.

“Ryerson’s hockey team has to play at George Bell Arena [a half-hour from the university] which is not conducive to having fans so it’s understandable that they’d want something just up the street.â€

Since the cement bleachers cannot be removed from the building without it collapsing, Mr. Rae said he believes the hockey rink would be at the current ice level, while the grocery store would be upstairs. He noted he is not privy to the discussions.

“You could have 10 storeys of shopping up there without disturbing the hockey-playing,†said Mr. Lewicki, noting the high ceiling.

He said he’d be happy to see Ryerson have an arena with hallways lined with pictures from the good old days. The second floor could be a basketball court and then up another escalator could be the grocery store.

“But if it was only to be a Loblaws store and nothing to do with the history of sport, a lot of people would have a bad taste in their mouths, that’s for sure,†he said.

While Ryerson’s part in reopening the Gardens would be great for nostalgia, he said, it wouldn’t have a huge effect on the business in the area, many of which closed down when the Toronto Maple Leafs moved out and took the fans with them.

“The seats used to hold 16,000 to 18,000. No university team draws that kind of crowd,†he said, noting that the majority of the seats have been taken out and auctioned off leaving behind only a few thousand.

This is the third time Ryerson has tried to make Maple Leaf Gardens home to its sports teams.

When the Leafs first moved out, Ryerson looked at renovating the building to house their hockey and basketball teams, a business school and a student residence. The cost was too great and the plan was dropped.

Just months after Loblaw first bought Maple Leaf Gardens, the company realized renovating would be too expensive. Ryerson discussed options for building its own rink there but then walked away because of the cost.

Last spring, the majority of Ryerson students voted ‘‘yes’’ to a fee increase to fund a new athletic facility.
 
syn said:
MLSE should just have allowed the site to be used as a smaller scale arena for one of the local junior teams, that could also serve as a nice venue for smaller concerts.

Hopefully Ryerson can make good use of it.
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My recollection when Mr. Melnyk wanted to buy it for the St. Michael's Majors of the OHL the Leafs were ok with a +/- 10k arena for junior hockey but wanted an agreement that there would be no concerts or other entertainment.
 
This mixed use solution is the best idea I've heard for the Gardens since it closed. I certainly hope that a deal can be reached.
 
I think the big issue that's been impeding redevelopment all along is that it requires too much coin for any one party to fork over. Now that it can be split in half, I think it starts to look quite feasible. Especially considering Rye's access to government infrastructure dough.

Technically, the pricey problem is that the exterior walls were built without the usual support and the stands are actually holding them up. So preserving 2-3 walls while taking down the stands and digging underground for a level of parking, as Loblaws more or less wanted to do, would have been a financial nightmare. Keeping the rink, compartmentalizing the building into 3-4 self-supporting sections and removing the stands accordingly would make much more practical sense to me.

Realistically, this is the best and most feasible win-win-win scenario for Loblaws, Rye and the city -- and everyone including us can see it -- that its odds of going ahead are pretty high.

I can see a Loblaws on the east and north sides, the rink kept in the middle with 5,000 or so seats, and the university's sports facilities, lecture halls, etc along the west. I also think Rye will go out of its way to ensure that some of the Gardens arena ambience is kept, which will be awesome.
 
BEST IDEA EVER!!!! the area needs a superstore BADLY so i like how they are still following through, but keeping its history is good too! Even though its around 2 blocks away from the main part of campus, it's still a short walk. Hopefully Ryerson can get more buildings to bring the campus closer to MLG
 
Northern Magus said:
I think the big issue that's been impeding redevelopment all along is that it requires too much coin for any one party to fork over. Now that it can be split in half, I think it starts to look quite feasible. Especially considering Rye's access to government infrastructure dough.

Technically, the pricey problem is that the exterior walls were built without the usual support and the stands are actually holding them up. So preserving 2-3 walls while taking down the stands and digging underground for a level of parking, as Loblaws more or less wanted to do, would have been a financial nightmare. Keeping the rink, compartmentalizing the building into 3-4 self-supporting sections and removing the stands accordingly would make much more practical sense to me.

Realistically, this is the best and most feasible win-win-win scenario for Loblaws, Rye and the city -- and everyone including us can see it -- that its odds of going ahead are pretty high.

I can see a Loblaws on the east and north sides, the rink kept in the middle with 5,000 or so seats, and the university's sports facilities, lecture halls, etc along the west. I also think Rye will go out of its way to ensure that some of the Gardens arena ambience is kept, which will be awesome.
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Im sorry to say but when the dust clears all your going to get is a facade.:rolleyes:

Loblaw said it would preserve the building's architectural façade and include a store featuring Maple Leaf hockey team memorabilia in its plans.
 
devjohnson said:
the area needs a superstore BADLY
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Really? That's funny, living in the area around MLG for four years has never once made me wish for an oversized grocery store. There's so many good grocery options around (the Metros at College Park/Merchandise Building, Sobeys, Food Basics, No Frills, and a slew of independents like Cumbraes, Reithers, Super Fresh, Little Bee etc) that I doubt I'd ever see a need to use the Loblaws.
 
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