adma
Superstar
To invoke Kunstler on behalf of knocking Libeskind is like invoking Limbaugh on behalf of knocking Hillary Clinton, i.e. surely you can do better than that...
JoeRoe
New Member
Just go and see the ROM addition and then go to see the Mandir Hindu Temple at 427 and Finch (Please go inside!). Tradition versus constant innovation. No certified architects involved. See how long it takes to produce meaningful architecture? No sketches on envelopes, but centuries of honing incredible skills.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Kunstler? He might have some good points about suburbia, but he should stick to talking about that instead of commenting on architecture in established urban areas, where outrageousness can be sustained (and in fact, demanded) by a competent urban fabric. Like OCAD being an "eyesore of the month"? After all the delight it gave to area residents? Also keep in mind, good architecture in his books is Duany-EPZ crap.
You are presenting good meaningful (what is that?) architecture as a innovation vs. tradition false dicotomy. Would it make sense (ie. meaningful) for the institution that is ROM to build like the Mandir temple? And no certified architects involved? Where did you get that? You are mixing up ornate decorative forms with building science - the project wouldn't have been built in Ontario if it doesn't comform to our building code and is signed off to be so.
AoD
You are presenting good meaningful (what is that?) architecture as a innovation vs. tradition false dicotomy. Would it make sense (ie. meaningful) for the institution that is ROM to build like the Mandir temple? And no certified architects involved? Where did you get that? You are mixing up ornate decorative forms with building science - the project wouldn't have been built in Ontario if it doesn't comform to our building code and is signed off to be so.
AoD
JoeRoe
New Member
Sorry Alvino, but I don't subscribe to the modern architecture narrative of our cultural glitterati. Look at the crap it has produced in the past eighty years.
smuncky
Senior Member
any specifics you want to mention?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Anything that isn't a reconstruction of "lost landmarks" by the sound of it.
JoeRoe
New Member
Please, give me a reconstructed masterpiece anytime in place of nightmarish fantasies (don't tell us that we don't have the money to do so: the marble and stone, fully hancarved Mandir Temple cost a total of 40 million CAN$).
JoeRoe
New Member
Just take a stroll in any city you like and look around.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Can't we have both (Mandir Temple and the ROM expansion)?
Oh, wait. We did.
Likewise we got One St. Thomas and a few other historist condos as well as a crop of good and bad modernist towers.
Oh, wait. We did.
Likewise we got One St. Thomas and a few other historist condos as well as a crop of good and bad modernist towers.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
JoeRoe:
You don't have to subscribe to anything - you aren't paying for it, nor do you have much of a say in whether it gets built or not. The rest of us can enjoy the buildings for all their glory and faults, and make up our minds as to whether they are worthwhile to us without your approval - feel free to sulk in another corner while we do that, however.
FIN.
AoD
You don't have to subscribe to anything - you aren't paying for it, nor do you have much of a say in whether it gets built or not. The rest of us can enjoy the buildings for all their glory and faults, and make up our minds as to whether they are worthwhile to us without your approval - feel free to sulk in another corner while we do that, however.
FIN.
AoD
JoeRoe
New Member
Alvino, as a taxpayer I am very much paying for our public buildings. But you are right that I have no control whether they get built or not. Our politicians and politically appointed bureaucrats as usual grab the ball and run, like it or not. It's all part of our great democratic deficit.
P.S. I have no corners to sulk in, I live in a round house
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
adma: in answer to your question, I assume that Libeskind was the only one of the shortlisted architects who understood the purpose of the ROM's 1914 design and expansion plan, and the advantage to the museum of staying the course set by that plan. The Crystal is flashy starchitecture, for sure, but it's also a good example of the design process as problem-solving technique. I think Gehry's new AGO will be successful as a functional solution to similar problems of navigation and coherence there, and it also has the requisite amount of architectural "big wow" to draw in the crowds.
Even allowing for the cheap labour costs of having the work done in India, $40 million seems a bit expensive for a modular, pre-fabricated, Temple-In-A-Box.
Even allowing for the cheap labour costs of having the work done in India, $40 million seems a bit expensive for a modular, pre-fabricated, Temple-In-A-Box.
JoeRoe
New Member
Even allowing for the cheap labour costs of having the work done in India, $40 million seems a bit expensive for a modular, pre-fabricated, Temple-In-A-Box.
Modular, prefabricated? Well, yes, but it's fully and beautifully hand carved with no two pieces alike! Can you imagine a ROM addition carved with animals on walls, reptiles curling around columns, ceilings masterfully sculpted with magical iconography? (Native legends, Voyageurs' travels, ancient civilization narratives...) Let your imagination soar and try to picture what 600 Millions could have accomplished
Modular, prefabricated? Well, yes, but it's fully and beautifully hand carved with no two pieces alike! Can you imagine a ROM addition carved with animals on walls, reptiles curling around columns, ceilings masterfully sculpted with magical iconography? (Native legends, Voyageurs' travels, ancient civilization narratives...) Let your imagination soar and try to picture what 600 Millions could have accomplished
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Why would anyone want to build such a thing in this day and age? Besides, the 1914 and 1933 wings have plenty of hand carved iconography of that sort.
JoeRoe
New Member
I guess your preference is for thousands of square feet of white drywall going in every direction.