Toronto RBC WaterPark Place III | 140.2m | 30s | Oxford Properties | WZMH

(will never have a Chicago like waterfront)

This Chicago thing is nonsense. It drives me crazy when people talk about it. We have plenty of good things on the waterfront that Chicago will never have. The biggest is the Toronto Islands. Why do people only look at Harbourfront when they talk waterfront when its much more than that (Islands, Spit, Port Lands and more including Scarborough and Etobicoke)? We have much more on the waterfront with a lot more coming over the next few decades.
 
I think it is okay North of QQ - though some stepping would be preferable - highrises south of QQ is just plain unacceptable in most settings in the Central Waterfront.

AoD
 
If one wants to see the waterfront has to go to the waterfront to see the water. Why some people expect to see the lake from Gardener and then complain that they can't see it. From the foot of Bay street to the foot of Bathurst you can walk on the waters edge and enjoy the view of the lake uninterrupted by buildings. .
 
will never have a Chicago like waterfront

Aside from the area near Millennium Park and the far North of the city, Chicago's waterfront is a disaster. They have buildings just as close to the waterfront, in most places, as we do. The only difference is that they have an 8 lane at-grade pseudo-highway bounding it. Don't even get me started on Navy Pier. IMO, Toronto has a much nicer waterfront than Chicago, but we're definitely still no Vancouver in that regard. It's ironic that the same Vancouver, with its "generic field" of condos that you seem to dislike, has probably the best waterfront on the continent.
 
Aside from the area near Millennium Park and the far North of the city, Chicago's waterfront is a disaster. They have buildings just as close to the waterfront, in most places, as we do. The only difference is that they have an 8 lane at-grade pseudo-highway bounding it. Don't even get me started on Navy Pier. IMO, Toronto has a much nicer waterfront than Chicago, but we're definitely still no Vancouver in that regard. It's ironic that the same Vancouver, with its "generic field" of condos that you seem to dislike, has probably the best waterfront on the continent.

Hi, out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the Navy Pier? And in which ways is Toronto's waterfront better/nicer than Chicago's asides from their highway? Thanks.
 
Toronto's waterfront is full of diverse communities with residences, hotels, offices, parks, public squares, schools, museums, community centres, swimming pools, boating schools, tv and radio studios, recreational activities, concert venues, theatre, art galleries, restaurants and stores. (all south of the highway) East of Chicago's lakefront highway, you mostly have a cement promenade, parks and beaches. Besides Navy Pier and the zoo, there ain't much else, except for a few isolated restaurants on the beach. There just isn't much to do besides sun tanning on Chicago's lake. Toronto's waterfront is much more integrated into the city, while Chicago's is very separate from it. To cross that highway, you have to wait forever for the light to turn green. (near Millennium Park)

Another thing I like about Toronto's waterfront is it's not straight up and down, like Chicago's. Toronto's shoreline is much more interesting with quays, curves and all kinds of parts that go everywhere. It takes much longer to explore and get to know. It's full of surprises and has lots of hidden places. You can't find that in Chicago. It gives you way more options and is much more diverse. Think of how different every part is, with crowded areas and completely deserted sections. Chicago's waterfront has no charming neighbourhoods like Ward's Island or the Beaches, nor can you find the kind of atmosphere you have there. It doesn't have interesting landforms like the Scarborough Bluffs. Chicago may have that great skyline, which can be seen from the lake but the actual waterfront, east of the highway, just isn't all that interesting or diverse.

Another thing about Toronto's waterfront, is that it's not even finished, so it's just going to get more interesting and better, with time. It may have taken us a long time to get our act together but I think it is worth the wait.
 
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Say what you want about waterfronts, but Harbour Square on Toronto's waterfront is a prominent mistake. The "wall of condos" complaint is only a legitimate problem at Harbour Square. You can build as many condos as you want on the existing grid of streets north of Queens Quay and you can't say it's a wall. You just keep walking along the sidewalk as if nothing were there.

Harbour Square, on the other hand, is long wall literally next to the lake that you have to walk around. It offers little in the way of architecture or retail. Perhaps it could be improved with destination retail along QQ and some walkways through the complex. Redeveloping the podium to have some major museum or cultural institution with parking going underground could help significantly. It would be wise at that point to build a prominent mid-block walkway through Harbour Square to the water's edge.
 
Now that RBC is going up right across from Harbour Square, it's the perfect time to redevelop/renovate all the retail that faces Queen's Quay. The hotel beside it could also use a complete redesign to make its north side, pedestrian friendly. A restaurant with a great patio, would be a nice option.. Both of these blunders cab be greatly improved. It just takes a little creativity and effort. From what I've heard for my city councillor, that is exactly what will happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
It just takes a little creativity and effort. From what I've heard for my city councillor, that is exactly what will happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
It takes not only creativity and effort, it takes millions to repair the ugly parking garage and the retail area. WHO is going to pay for it? As explained before, the retail area is owned by a foreign investor and there are negotiations with the Board of 33HS and the investor regarding extending the window wall to the edge of the columns, however he wants to take full advantage of the gained square footage that now belongs to the building. The board can not just agree to give it away. He is reluctant to share the profit from the rent and does not want to invest in repairs that will cost more than a million dollars. I also kept my fingers crossed until I realized that changes are not very likely.
 
Hi, out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the Navy Pier? And in which ways is Toronto's waterfront better/nicer than Chicago's asides from their highway? Thanks.

Navy Pier is a horrible thing to boast about, IMO. It reminds me of those travelling "amusement parks" that go around mall parking lots in the summer. The food is horrible, there are few attractions to speak of, and the area is isolated from everything else. The only positive thing is the view from the ferris wheel, which is fantastic. As for Chicago's waterfront, it feels a lot more disconnected from the rest of the city to me. Even our islands feel more connected than the majority of Chicago's waterfront, IMO.
 
21 December 2013: Sad to see such a great concrete shell get ruined by bland glazing:
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It takes not only creativity and effort, it takes millions to repair the ugly parking garage and the retail area. WHO is going to pay for it? As explained before, the retail area is owned by a foreign investor and there are negotiations with the Board of 33HS and the investor regarding extending the window wall to the edge of the columns, however he wants to take full advantage of the gained square footage that now belongs to the building. The board can not just agree to give it away. He is reluctant to share the profit from the rent and does not want to invest in repairs that will cost more than a million dollars. I also kept my fingers crossed until I realized that changes are not very likely.

It's not even Harbour Square. The whole line of 70s-90s buildings lining Queens Quay from HTO Park provide awful street presence.
 

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