Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

TOAreaFan:

I guess what is unstated in the "useless complaining" is just a sentiment of frustration that things seem to take much longer here than in other jurisdictions and wondering why. As someone pointed out earlier, some cities plan/prepare/build for events as big and complicated in the Olympics in not much more time than this project is going to have taken. If you compare this to our own Olympic experience.....how many of the projects that Lastman/Harris/Chretien promised at that press conference at Front and Bathurst (the ones that would go ahead regardless of our bid success and be ready in time for the 2008 Olympics) are done? People (me included) are just expressing frustration over the speed at which major (and not so major projects) move along.
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Yes, and you should ask the representatives of the powers that be as to why those very levels of government insisted on a governance structure for WT that basically tied their hands up; or on that matter, what the jurisdictional framework the WT has to operate under, in comparison to other places where things can be done quickly? Not addressing these issues while complaining about how long it takes is tantamount to arguing that laws should be broken just so that what we think is worthwhile should happen in the timeframe and way we would like them to, laws be damned. Needless to say, we don't argue for such a stance so carelessly?

If you want to complain - contact your councillor/MPP/MP and give them a piece of your mind about the waterfront and how the current arrangements is inadequate, and compel them to let WT do the job ASAP free from excessive oversight and constraints. Personally, I find it a bit of a small miracle that the said powers didn't pull the plug after TO lost the Olympics.

AoD
 
One way westbound traffic on Queens Quay would do a lot to help restrict left turns on any future Lakeshore Blvd Gardiner replacement grand boulevard proposal.

That, and the renderings look really excellent. This is the shot in the arm the waterfront needs.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
TOAreaFan:



Yes, and you should ask the representatives of the powers that be as to why those very levels of government insisted on a governance structure for WT that basically tied their hands up; or on that matter, what the jurisdictional framework the WT has to operate under, in comparison to other places where things can be done quickly? Not addressing these issues while complaining about how long it takes is tantamount to arguing that laws should be broken just so that what we think is worthwhile should happen in the timeframe and way we would like them to, laws be damned. Needless to say, we don't argue for such a stance so carelessly?

If you want to complain - contact your councillor/MPP/MP and give them a piece of your mind about the waterfront and how the current arrangements is inadequate, and compel them to let WT do the job ASAP free from excessive oversight and constraints. Personally, I find it a bit of a small miracle that the said powers didn't pull the plug after TO lost the Olympics.

AoD
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Today I vented about the Waterfront but the frustration is about how long any project takes.....I used to correspond and discuss with MPs and MPPs and Transit officials...etc...when I was younger...but, frankly, you (well I anyway) just got a lot of sloughing off kind of answers.

I gave up and just watch,.....sometimes complain......and get frustrated with he whole thing.....we just seem caught in a rut of announcement followed by re-announcement (like shampoo we seem to need to rinse and repeat a lot) then study then re-study etc etc....and drag things out for a long time.

sorry if you think people uselessly complaining is not what you think should happen on this (or any other board) but I was just supporting someone's opinion that this project really should not have taken 6 years.
 
Originally Posted by confusion
Has anyone else considered any potential downsides to a grass-filled LRT track?
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This city can't get grass right in its parks, imagine how poorly maintained the grass will be in the middle of a road being run over by streetcars every 30 seconds.
 
That's weird. I always thought streetcars ran on rails not grass...
[/tongue in cheek]

I could seriously see some sort of railed maintenance vehicle with water tanks and fertilizers in the summer and a plow/blower attachment for winter being quite practical.

There are many species of grass that are resistant to high levels of salination that could be used for this right of way.

And if all else fails, there's FieldTurf. :eek:
 
Yes, why is criticizing the process and the system considered 'whining'? In most cities this is considered 'sport' and encouraged. The apologists of apathy in Toronto never cease to amaze me.
 
Tewder:

If you decide to equate support for a measured approach over speed as "apathy", so be it. That said, considering the amount of time I've been following this project and waterfront revitalization in general, I think I have a better claim to the opposite than 99% of the population out there.

Besides, other than criticizing - have you taken the time to learn why things are the way they are such that it can inform where to push for changes? I have a strange feeling that a lot of those who criticize doesn't want to do the dirty work and just wanted things done by decree. Sorry, that's not how our society operates. If you take the time to read say, the WT backgrounder on the topic - it states very clearly as to why the process is so lengthy - between the reuslts of a design competition - which has no legal force - to actual implementation. And I quote from the backgrounder (p. 1):

While Waterfront Toronto was an advocate of the winning design, it fully supported the statutorily-required Class Environmental Assessment (EA) process which had to occur before any work on Queens Quay could begin. Queens Quay was the subject of two EAs, one focused on the street‟s revitalization and the other on transit needs:

That ate up 2 years - PLUS legally required approval by the Minister (after a legally mandated period for public comments) and the city to sign off on the plan before sod can be turned. Now, do I like the fact that it takes up so much time? No, but I don't have to like it - and if I really am interested in making a difference, I would know the why and the hows and who to contact - instead of stomping on the ground and cry "it's taking too long".

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Tewder:

If you decide to equate support for a measured approach over speed as "apathy", so be it. That said, considering the amount of time I've been following this project and waterfront revitalization in general, I think I have a better claim to the opposite than 99% of the population out there.

Besides, other than criticizing - have you taken the time to learn why things are the way they are such that it can inform where to push for changes? I have a strange feeling that a lot of those who criticize doesn't want to do the dirty work and just wanted things done by decree. Sorry, that's not how our society operates. If you take the time to read say, the WT backgrounder on the topic - it states very clearly as to why the process is so lengthy - between the reuslts of a design competition - which has no legal force - to actual implementation. And I quote from the backgrounder (p. 1):

While Waterfront Toronto was an advocate of the winning design, it fully supported the statutorily-required Class Environmental Assessment (EA) process which had to occur before any work on Queens Quay could begin. Queens Quay was the subject of two EAs, one focused on the street‟s revitalization and the other on transit needs:

That ate up 2 years - PLUS legally required approval by the Minister (after a legally mandated period for public comments) and the city to sign off on the plan before sod can be turned. Now, do I like the fact that it takes up so much time? No, but I don't have to like it - and if I really am interested in making a difference, I would know the why and the hows and who to contact - instead of stomping on the ground and cry "it's taking too long".

AoD
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Those are fair comments, I guess. But, on the same token, the politicians who really should know the ins and outs and how long projects take should not be running around the country telling people that infrastructure spending is the way out of the current recession. If this recession is still on when most of this infrastructure money actually starts to make it into the ground.......it will be far too late to save the economy.
 
alklay said:
"Mr. Glaisek referred to two rows of trees that will frame the pedestrian walkway as the “signature piece†of the redesign, which would satisfy city council’s goal to provide 35% of the street with canopy tree coverage.

“We’d actually produce this colonnade that pedestrians and cyclists would get to experience,†he said. “In general, we want to bring some beauty down here.â€

Trees?!! Adding beauty!! We had to hire Europeans to tell us this?

I really wish Toronto understood how ugly its streetscape is without trees etc.

BTW, I love this design and hope for its speedy approval.
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I agree. It seems odd it took all this work to come up with such a simple and obvious solution.

I also noticed this quote:

“We think Queens Quay Boulevard should be one of the top 10 streets in the world,†says John Campbell, CEO of Waterfront Toronto, which today unveiled its preferred option to transform the roadway between Spadina Avenue and Parliament Street by 2012.
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This plan is nice, but one of the Top 10 streets in the world? I don't think so. For that to happen we'll have to see a lot more done - including higher standards for architecture, especially with so many crappy buildings in the area.
 
This plan is nice, but one of the Top 10 streets in the world? I don't think so. For that to happen we'll have to see a lot more done - including higher standards for architecture, especially with so many crappy buildings in the area.
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Agreed, which is why any redesign of Bloor Street or Jarvis or Queens Quay will never make the street "one of the world's best." Street design can only do so much, great architecture has to meet it halfway. Last time I checked, the Champs Elyesse didn't have streetwalls of cold condominium bunkers and ghastly newspaper headquarters.
 
mjl08 said:
Last time I checked, the Champs Elyesse didn't have streetwalls of cold condominium bunkers and ghastly newspaper headquarters.
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Hey, it's got a McDonald's and a Disney store. Perhaps our Champs-Élysées is the the Eatons Centre :) Which given our climate, may not be a bad thing!
 
Some thoughts...

One, the bridge stays the same. They should really replace with something that goes over the entire quay. I dont care how expensive it is, it would greatly fix the issue of trash entering into Maple Leaf Quay as there would no longer be a strong current to carry it in here and then trap it. Also, a new bridge could be designed to eliminate the echo we currently experience (it drowns out anything from the airport) whenever a streetcar goes over it. The thought of having the Rees St Parking lot emptying out onto a two lane road is a horrifying thought, esspecially considering all that traffic is going to be going by the entrance to my building with a redesign of the lots entrance and exit point. I wish they could consider a right in right out onto lakeshore for this parking lot, it would be really nice and would alleviate most of my concern. Also, I love the thought of having the trail finally extend through this part. Its often a huge headache and a game of dodgeball (or dodgecar?) to get to Yonge and QQ. Also, one of the images shows the trail being plowed in the winter, if there really doing this then this is great and I hope it extends to the entire path.
 
In a perfect world, the parking lot at Rees would be transformed into some awesome public space or an institution of some sorts. There's no need for a parking lot in the middle of the waterfront especially when it and the surrounding attractions (harbourfront, CN Tower and Rogers Centre) are very accessible by public transportation. It's a very big parking lot and has a lot of potential.
 
Yeah it is, but its a huge source of income for the Harbourfront Centre, they gross prolly 500K+ a year, consider they charge 15 dollars per spot, and its guarenteed full for almost every sporting event in Rogers or ACC, during the Auto Show and also other conferences. I just dont see them giving it up anytime soon.
 
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