Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Good lord, isn't this project finished yet? Some paving, landscaping and trees... what's the big deal? Why the 6 years of planning and construction?? You'd think they were building the Great Wall of China or something, by hand! This could have been a perfect 'shovel-ready' make-work stimulus project green-lighted with lots of government dollars. Instead we wait until 2012 while bureaucrats dither for years over car lanes.
 
Tewder:

Like it or hate it, there are procedures to follow (not to mention the need to work everything into the budget, plus the fact that this project has to be coordinated with other revitalization schemes in the area). Considering the fact that a) there are multiple interests; b) WT at the end of the day in the master planner but not in a position to dictate anything and c) what can be done independently (e.g. decks and bridges) are - I am surprised they can come to any sort of consensus at all.

Surely, you are not suggesting that we take the Chinese model (ancient or otherwise) of decision-making in public works?

AoD
 
The east streetcar portal will have to be built, which will complicate things, and the new tracks to Parliament, and the current tracks replaced. It's not as simple as re-jigging traffic lights and lanes. Two years to do this is realistic, and in the meantime, enjoy the new slip heads.
 
I understand that there are logistics, but 'six' years? It doesn't take much longer than that for some cities to stage an Olympics.
 
My point exactly. Three years ago and we're still 'talking'. Who's holding their breath for 2012?
 
Tewder:

Considering critical elements of the West 8/DTAH plan (i.e. the forementioned decks and bridges) are already in motion - if not actually completed, and the legal requirements that the organization can't ignore in undertaking the more intrusive aspects of the scheme, I don't really understand what this talk about "continue to talk" as if nothing has taken place is all about. If all action and no talk is what you wanted, feel free to lobby the government for changes in the governance structure of WT and the legal, fiscal and institutional environment within which it operates. Don't look surprised when a subpar plan is slated for implementation and you find yourself with absolutely no recourse for changes, however.

AoD
 
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It's better to take the time to get a design right at the conceptual stage, and to keep the bigger picture in mind, than to rush things through or to celebrate merely because "something" has been built. I think that's what we're seeing here. The Feds launched Harbourfront in 1972 as a cultural initiative and we're only now seeing the proposal for what Canada Square will look like - but the renderings suggest that it's based on expanding the existing character of the successful and low-key York Quay model that has evolved over the years. As the central waterfront develops its own character, it can be adapted to each new development. The waterfront promenades that have already been built are being incorporated into the West8 plan, for instance. And given that it's taken over 35 years of incremental change, mistakes, and false starts just to get to where we are now with waterfront regeneration, I doubt if the Port Lands will be "finished" for another 50 or so.
 
Filip said:
I hope they plant mature trees... That may be asking for too much though.
Click to expand...

As part of the city's cost savings plan, they have determined that it is much cheaper to neglect, and have die, young trees, as opposed to mature ones. Once the Feds chip in with 1% of the GST the city will move to killing mature ones.
 
Glen:

And if the city doesn't neglect those trees, and chose to devote labour and funding to actually maintaining them (or pursue policies that will have a positive impact on said trees at the expense of other issues and interests) , I am sure I will hear three cheers about how tax money is well spent and/or the city having the right priorities in these trying times. :rolleyes:

Seriously, considering the benefit these street trees in the city offer - shouldn't those whose property benefit from them be responsible for their maintainance even if they are in the right of way?

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Tewder:

Considering critical elements of the West 8/DTAH plan (i.e. the forementioned decks and bridges) are already in motion - if not actually completed, and the legal requirements that the organization can't ignore in undertaking the more intrusive aspects of the scheme, I don't really understand what this talk about "continue to talk" as if nothing has taken place is all about. If all action and no talk is what you wanted, feel free to lobby the government for changes in the governance structure of WT and the legal, fiscal and institutional environment within which it operates. Don't look surprised when a subpar plan is slated for implementation and you find yourself with absolutely no recourse for changes, however.

AoD
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We seem to love radical polarizations at UT...

I don't want 'all action' but six years to landscape a boulevard? Six years to come up with a plan that isn't subpar? At this rate even six years seems ambitious.

As you say, however, the system is broken and/or bogged down in Toronto and this much is evident. Please pardon my incredulity.
 
Tewder:

This is not a City of Toronto issue - it's the problem of an organization (WT) with multiple modes of accountabilities operating within a multi-jurisdictional environment. And note the 6 years include planning (with a mandatory EA) and execution of the plan - not 6 years to come up with a plan, as you claimed. And as ShonTron already mentioned - the plan, in particular the transit elements, requires the construction of a new LRT portal. It's not as simple as landscaping one's backyard.

And it wasn't like everyone is twiddling their thumbs while this thing grinds along the legally required path - WT is concurrently planning and implementing a number of projects, some of which (e.g. West Don Lands) has literally been in a state of suspended animation for what, about 15 years until WT came along? Now if you want to look at a gross system failure, that one would have been it.

AoD
 
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