Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Jonny5 said:
The convention business in North America is a complete disaster. Demand for space is lower now than 15 years ago, yet convention space has increased 50% in that period, growing every year, often through white elephant city government financed projects. The supply has so massively outstripped demand that there is almost no way to make money from that business. It's quite well documented and I don't know why he would say it would really hurt them to lose it.It is almost certain that extremely outdated space is a massive financial sinkhole they should be desperate to unload.
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What's overbuilt are the massive convention centres. There are still lots of small meetings that require space, and all I am saying is that if the Westin still needs it, it would have no trouble getting space in a redeveloped Westin Convention Centre site. The bridge that's there now could always be rebuilt, and whatever goes up across QQ from the Westin in the future will still likely be connected to it by a skywalk.

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Jonny5 said:
The convention business in North America is a complete disaster. Demand for space is lower now than 15 years ago, yet convention space has increased 50% in that period, growing every year, often through white elephant city government financed projects. The supply has so massively outstripped demand that there is almost no way to make money from that business. It's quite well documented and I don't know why he would say it would really hurt them to lose it.It is almost certain that extremely outdated space is a massive financial sinkhole they should be desperate to unload.
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Back during the casino debates, I remember Rob Ford (and others) were saying that Toronto lacked convention space. I had no idea convention centres were so underused, given that the last couple cities I've been to have been for events held in convention centres. I wonder if Toronto specifically may have an undersupply, even if other cities use it as a gimmick to lure travellers.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2005/01/01cities-sanders
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_2_the_convention.htmlz
http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2008/04/as_a_glut_of_convention_space.html
 
I think Sheraton Centre has a substantial amount of meeting/event space, I believe some of the new hotels sprung up of late (Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton and Delta, not sure about Shangri-La) also does as well. Convention Centres are different creatures entirely given the crowds they are designed to handle.

AoD
 
Jonny5 said:
The convention business in North America is a complete disaster. Demand for space is lower now than 15 years ago, yet convention space has increased 50% in that period, growing every year, often through white elephant city government financed projects. The supply has so massively outstripped demand that there is almost no way to make money from that business. It's quite well documented and I don't know why he would say it would really hurt them to lose it.It is almost certain that extremely outdated space is a massive financial sinkhole they should be desperate to unload.
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It would hurt them because it is something that is well used, and brings in a lot of visitors and money for them. It's not a financial sinkhole, and demand is not low for the space.

I know quite a few businesses that resort to renting movie theaters for corporate meetings as a last resort because everything else is already booked. Spaces the size of the Westin's conference centre are in high demand. (Key word, conference centre... its not a convention centre)
 
aquateam said:
At least with Spadina, it is relatively rare to see someone drive onto the ROW, unlike with Queens Quay.
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As it happens, I was walking down Spadina on Friday night when I heard a northbound streetcar at Willcocks, honking furiously as a car came down the ROW, presumably from at least Harbord ...
 
Saw another incident on Saturday morning in front of the Harbourfront Centre parking garage of a car running a red to turn left in front of a street car. Thankfully no accident this time, but the streetcar driver really leaned on the horn.
 
I believe that the main problem, and this was mentioned before, is that people are accustomed to getting away with running reds at left turns, and they are also not trained to check their left-side blindspot before making a left turn at an intersection. This is an issue at most intersections in the GTA. But at these Queens Quay intersections, unlike at most other intersections, there is actually a vehicle (a streetcar) that could enter that blind spot and t-bone the left-turning car.
 
wopchop said:
I believe that the main problem, and this was mentioned before, is that people are accustomed to getting away with running reds at left turns, and they are also not trained to check their left-side blindspot before making a left turn at an intersection. This is an issue at most intersections in the GTA. But at these Queens Quay intersections, unlike at most other intersections, there is actually a vehicle (a streetcar) that could enter that blind spot and t-bone the left-turning car.
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Recall that upon the opening of the Spadina ROW there were a lot of t-bone collisions because drivers would be turning left without checking to see if there was an approaching streetcar. Some 20 years later, these collisions are more rare. Hopefully it time, drivers will become accustom to checking their blind spot on QQ.
 
All the streetcar right-of-ways continue to have problems with private motorists driving on them. Today, saw a SUV going southbound on the Bathurst streetcar right-of-way between Lake Shore Blvd. West and Queens Quay. Yes, that portion is a streetcar right-of-way.

All the streetcar right-of-ways get motorists driving on them. Except for the Queensway... maybe, most of the time, haven't seen anybody do so, okay allegedly.
 
W. K. Lis said:
All the streetcar right-of-ways get motorists driving on them. Except for the Queensway... maybe, most of the time, haven't seen anybody do so, okay allegedly.
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Well, its further proof that the Queens Quay ROW should have been built with grass between the tracks then:

16_501_4203_2012_05_05.jpg

(Source: Transit.toronto.on.ca)

I mean, its not exactly grass... but its enough of a visual cue that you shouldn't be driving on it.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6373...4!1sXKgImIN0xffbktyocDafrQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
 
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