Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

whatever said:
How hard would it be, realistically, to install retractable bollards at the entrance to the ROW? Or a railway-style swing arm?
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I think having retractable bollards or a swing barrier would probably slow the streetcar down, you'd get drivers trying to beat the bollards/barrier, etc.

How about just a giant arrow painted on the road to show drivers where to go?
 
Seems like the problem is really more about inattentive drivers than infrastructure ...

Karen ‏@greenspeckfrogs 52m52 minutes ago
Don't drivers LOOK before pulling out into traffic? How can you miss a big red streetcar??? #fail #Broadview #Toronto


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I was working at the Westin Harbour Castle yesterday and the manager that I was dealing with was very candid about the situation that they find themselves in where the hotel has its back turned on to a world class street, that their door step is built for cars on a now pedestrian focused realm.

Its presence on Queens Quay is in fact actively hostile to pedestrians with a maze of driveways full of cars and no sidewalks. The only pedestrian entrance is through a narrow hallway up several stairs and hidden away from view.

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He said that they're currently in the process of redoing all their rooms and hallways and that once finished, they will shift their focus to the outside.

One way to improve is to bring their entrance closer to Queens Quay behind a simple Porte Cochère with escalators inside leading to the existing lobby.

One very interesting thing that he said is that "it will really affect us to lose the convention centre". I didn't know that this had been confirmed. Their property to the north will be redeveloped.

This is an excellent opportunity for a land swap and/or density transfer. Building a shiny new hotel tower on their convention centre land could open up the possibility of demolishing the old hotel and replacing it with a low rise building more suitable to the waterfront with an extension of Jack Layton ferry terminal park in the symbolically significant location at the foot of Yonge Street. Perhaps the city could grant them increased density at their north location in exchange for the park land with low rise commercial uses such as restaurants in the existing hotel land.

I don't expect that this will happen soon as they're refurbishing the hotel now but once the new Ferry Terminal is being built, when the foot of Yonge Street plans are being discussed and plans for the convention centre space come into focus, I hope that Waterfront Toronto is there to usher in an overall master plan that will serve everyone better. This is a huge opportunity and I hope we don't miss it.
 
While I think the hotel still needs some sort of car entry for arrivals and departures, at other times it definitely needs to be more pedestrian. A direct entry to the Queens Quay station and a more gentle entry to the ferry docks should be considered.
 
MetroMan said:
I was working at the Westin Harbour Castle yesterday and the manager that I was dealing with was very candid about the situation that they find themselves in where the hotel has its back turned on to a world class street, that their door step is built for cars on a now pedestrian focused realm.


He said that they're currently in the process of redoing all their rooms and hallways and that once finished, they will shift their focus to the outside.

One way to improve is to bring their entrance closer to Queens Quay behind a simple Porte Cochère with escalators inside leading to the existing lobby.

One very interesting thing that he said is that "it will really affect us to lose the convention centre". I didn't know that this had been confirmed. Their property to the north will be redeveloped.

This is an excellent opportunity for a land swap and/or density transfer. Building a shiny new hotel tower on their convention centre land could open up the possibility of demolishing the old hotel and replacing it with a low rise building more suitable to the waterfront with an extension of Jack Layton ferry terminal park in the symbolically significant location at the foot of Yonge Street. Perhaps the city could grant them increased density at their north location in exchange for the park land with low rise commercial uses such as restaurants in the existing hotel land.

I don't expect that this will happen soon as they're refurbishing the hotel now but once the new Ferry Terminal is being built, when the foot of Yonge Street plans are being discussed and plans for the convention centre space come into focus, I hope that Waterfront Toronto is there to usher in an overall master plan that will serve everyone better. This is a huge opportunity and I hope we don't miss it.
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Yes, this hotel was clearly built at a time when nobody would want to actually walk along QQ and everyone arrived by car. Almost anything would be better than what is there now. Combining any rebuild with the plans for upgrading the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal is very sensible - I hope WT and the City are aware of the hotel's plans.

Though I quite like the theory, the idea of linking the hotel to the QQ streetcar station underground is problematical (I think) because the East Bayfront LRT tunnel will sooner or later be running below QQ right in front of the hotel wit a large underground Y junction under Bay and QQ; it might make it easier to link the hotel or it might not!

I suppose that they are not thinking of making the revolving restaurant revolve again!

Having the "convention centre' redeveloped is great - it is not an ornament to the street!
 
What would prevent a redevelopment of the Convention Centre site from having some convention facilities in it for the Westin again? Surely any good architecture firm could work out a plan to include facilities above the ground level for those functions before other uses take over on higher floors.

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interchange42 said:
What would prevent a redevelopment of the Convention Centre site from having some convention facilities in it for the Westin again? Surely any good architecture firm could work out a plan to include facilities above the ground level for those functions before other uses take over on higher floors.

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I understood it as that they're going to sell the land or have sold it. I personally think that the hotel can stand on its own as a waterfront hotel. In the past, it relied on booking conventions to fill its rooms but I think it'll remain busy even if it were to lose its convention space.
 
MetroMan said:
I understood it as that they're going to sell the land or have sold it. I personally think that the hotel can stand on its own as a waterfront hotel. In the past, it relied on booking conventions to fill its rooms but I think it'll remain busy even if it were to lose its convention space.
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Though I have not been to a convention in the WHC for several years, my recollection is that their 'convention centre' was far too small to be used for the large conventions that are now so popular and that it was often used by a group (or several groups) occupying only a couple of smaller 'committee rooms'.
 
Not that it is going to happen, but I would love to see a swap - build a new hotel at the site of the existing convention centre at a greater height (the site is probably sufficient for two towers) then tear down the existing plex south of QQ and move the new meeting rooms there in an iconic mixed used complex at say 6-8s, set back from the Yonge slip. By doing that, you'd end up with significant amount of public space on either side of the slip that can be used imaginatively.

AoD
 
For sure their convention centre is nowhere near big enough for big conventions, but there are still tons of events which need the smaller spaces too, and in fact there are more of those types of events, they just don't get the press because they're not so big. The manager did say that losing the convention centre would "really affect us", and no doubt he knows his business. With the overhead walkway there, I still say there's no reason to not work something out with whoever redevelops the site. Condo developers are always looking for ways to get the lowest condo floors higher up, so conference space in a podium would be a perfect way to do that.

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I tried to enter the convention centre directly from Bay or Queen's Quay at 8AM as I was attending an event there, about five years ago. It simply wasn't possible. I had to cross QQ, enter that awful entranceway into the hotel, go upstairs, take the overhead walkway to get in. Ridiculous.

The Harbour Castle, Harbour Square, and to a lesser extent, the current Ferry Terminal (hidden behind the two) all conspire to ruin what really should be the focus of Toronto's ever-greater waterfront. They have a car-centric fortress mentality that reminds me of how new Detroit buildings looked in the 1970s (the original street presence of Renaissance Center). Having a single owner, Weston Harbour Castle can be improved, and I am glad that this will be happening. But Harbour Square, with 1000+ owners (it being a condo) is almost impossible to fix.
 
ShonTron said:
The Harbour Castle, Harbour Square, and to a lesser extent, the current Ferry Terminal (hidden behind the two) all conspire to ruin what really should be the focus of Toronto's ever-greater waterfront. They have a car-centric fortress mentality that reminds me of how new Detroit buildings looked in the 1970s (the original street presence of Renaissance Center). Having a single owner, Weston Harbour Castle can be improved, and I am glad that this will be happening. But Harbour Square, with 1000+ owners (it being a condo) is almost impossible to fix.
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I don't mind the 1970s Harbour Square - the QQ street level aside, it has a certain solidity to it and the terrace facing the water is interesting. That said, I would love to see the late 80s addition by the York Quay go - it should never have been approved.

As to the Westin plex, can't say anything good about it. Blow it up pronto.

AoD
 
interchange42 said:
For sure their convention centre is nowhere near big enough for big conventions, but there are still tons of events which need the smaller spaces too, and in fact there are more of those types of events, they just don't get the press because they're not so big. The manager did say that losing the convention centre would "really affect us", and no doubt he knows his business. With the overhead walkway there, I still say there's no reason to not work something out with whoever redevelops the site. Condo developers are always looking for ways to get the lowest condo floors higher up, so conference space in a podium would be a perfect way to do that.

42
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My company actually uses their convention centre every now and then. We rotate between Maple Leaf Gardens and the Westin every few months. It's a perfect space for divisional meetings for large/medium companies.
 
interchange42 said:
For sure their convention centre is nowhere near big enough for big conventions, but there are still tons of events which need the smaller spaces too, and in fact there are more of those types of events, they just don't get the press because they're not so big. The manager did say that losing the convention centre would "really affect us", and no doubt he knows his business. With the overhead walkway there, I still say there's no reason to not work something out with whoever redevelops the site. Condo developers are always looking for ways to get the lowest condo floors higher up, so conference space in a podium would be a perfect way to do that.

42
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The convention business in North America is a complete disaster. Demand for space is lower now than 15 years ago, yet convention space has increased 50% in that period, growing every year, often through white elephant city government financed projects. The supply has so massively outstripped demand that there is almost no way to make money from that business. It's quite well documented and I don't know why he would say it would really hurt them to lose it.It is almost certain that extremely outdated space is a massive financial sinkhole they should be desperate to unload.
 
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