Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

generalcanada said:
the 1st article is ok. makes points about the beach which i dont care for but if it makes people happy then therme will find a way to change it up so the beach is at the back. (bet that wont be the last complaint)
the 2nd one is all over the place the entire 1st paragraph seems to argue for tearing down budweiser stage? then goes on to make the same points i made in the past to build on the parking lots at the EX ("but muh culture") LOL good luck with that

weird followup article
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Slightly off topic, but has anyone considered simply replacing half the surface parking at the Ex with grass so people can do regular park stuff, play baseball/soccer, etc? Small town versions of the CNE (autumn fairs, music festivals, etc) take place in parks not parking lots, so just wondering if there are any reasons this couldn't also be done for the CNE.
 
cereal said:
The cost to the tax payer is $400-500million parking garage and $150-200million in servicing infrastructure (utilities, water, sewer, etc...). If the Ontario government is so eager to pour over half a billion into Ontario Place lands to support a private business, then they could take a fraction of that same money and spend it on remediation and landscaping, restore the pods, and call it a day. There are alternative development options that make more sense from a financial standpoint. Don't pretend like the money isn't there for alternatives, when it obviously is. The Ontario government has made it very clear they are willing to spend enormous money to support this Therme Spa project, there is no reason why a portion of that money wouldn't be spent on alternatives for the land.
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Because they expect Therme to pay them rent and they've also gotten Therme to agree to invest towards the infrastructure rejuvenation and maintenance (it's not solely gov't money). Also, they're betting Therme, Live Nation, and the Science Centre move will bring more cars so they can collect more in parking fees. Clearly, they think they're going to reap more from this than they'll sow and they also think they'll reap more from this than the alternative plans considered (for example, the one submitted by Ontario Place for All). Disagree or agree, that's what they have bet on.
 
Natika33 said:
Are people defending the move? I see some defending the Therme portion (including myself), but not many defending the move of the Science Centre. If they dropped the idea to move the Science Centre, it might actually lead to other good changes. For example, they wouldn't need to eat up an existing surface parking lot, so perhaps they could reduce the size of that ridiculously large underground parkade.
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To be clear, I am talking about what they're planning to do with OP in general. Perhaps "move" wasn't the best word I used to describe that here. My apologies.
 
Natika33 said:
Because they expect Therme to pay them rent and they've also gotten Therme to agree to invest towards the infrastructure rejuvenation and maintenance (it's not solely gov't money). Also, they're betting Therme, Live Nation, and the Science Centre move will bring more cars so they can collect more in parking fees. Clearly, they think they're going to reap more from this than they'll sow and they also think they'll reap more from this than the alternative plans considered (for example, the one submitted by Ontario Place for All). Disagree or agree, that's what they have bet on.
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They should be able to present a credible business plan outlining this, right? The problem is that we're all just speculating because of the opaqueness of selling (let's be real, a 99-year lease is tantamount to selling) prime public land. I see that the there could be a credible argument for Therme over any other private or public option but it's incumbent on the government to make that case. They haven't yet.
 
This thread illustrates that there ought to have been a public debate about how to revitalize OP before the process was launched. But that isn't how modern conservative parties operate. They are authoritarian and decide public matters in private and shove the results up our ... well you know.
 
JohnnyRaylander said:
They should be able to present a credible business plan outlining this, right? The problem is that we're all just speculating because of the opaqueness of selling (let's be real, a 99-year lease is tantamount to selling) prime public land. I see that the there could be a credible argument for Therme over any other private or public option but it's incumbent on the government to make that case. They haven't yet.
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Ah, but then they wouldn't be able to hide the deal with Therme from Live Nation & vice versa. Less bargaining power.
 
CapitalSeven said:
This thread illustrates that there ought to have been a public debate about how to revitalize OP before the process was launched. But that isn't how modern conservative parties operate. They are authoritarian and decide public matters in private and shove the results up our ... well you know.
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There were public consultations. The public very clearly communicated they didn't want a casino or condos and they did want all-season family fun including a return of a water park. While I agree it might have been better had we all had the chance to weigh in on a 3 finalists' shortlist as we have for city projects, I think Therme comes pretty close to what Ontarians said they wanted, current naysayers aside.
 
A few pictures taken Thursday before the public meeting. The West Island, despite being neglected for decades, is not a dump. It is a beautiful landscape with a few bits of junk that need to be removed.


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Natika33 said:
There were public consultations. The public very clearly communicated they didn't want a casino or condos and they did want all-season family fun including a return of a water park
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There was no 'indoor waterpark' or spa before. Just to be clear on that. There were outdoor waterslides, bumper boats, a kids waterplay/splashpad.

Those took up a whole lot less room and were not on the west island either.

Natika33 said:
. While I agree it might have been better had we all had the chance to weigh in on a 3 finalists' shortlist as we have for city projects, I think Therme comes pretty close to what Ontarians said they wanted, current naysayers aside.
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I can't agree to that at all.
 
Natika33 said:
There were public consultations. The public very clearly communicated they didn't want a casino or condos and they did want all-season family fun including a return of a water park.
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Did the public actually "very clearly communicate" they want a water park?

I don't recall that but anyway, I don't think I'd mind if there was something kind of like a an expansion of that previous park, like a White Water Kingdom, as part of a larger idea. But this is still different. It's within a massive structure which, for most people, is at least as much of a concern as the uses within it.
 
generalcanada said:
Hey Nice pictures, but before you make up your mind take a few photos of the log flume ride. Very convenient you left that massive dump of an attraction out
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Negatively dwelling upon the log flume ride is a little like cutting the nose off to spite the face. I mean, under the circumstance, one might as well suggest that all of OP be swept away because of the Bud Stage obliterating the Forum and thus "wrecking Zeidler's overall concept". (And indeed, it *could* be argued that the Bud Stage was more authentically "destructive" than said log flume ride, which basically just adaptively reused the Ontario North Now pavilion--which, even if ill-fated as a pavilion, was at least consistent with the Zeidler/Hough vision. And with that pre-history in mind, who's to say that what's there right now can't be adapted *away* from being a log flume ride and into something more in accordance w/said vision.)

Of course, I know the difference in value being projected here--Bud Stage is "actively used", while the log flume is "abandoned". A little like, better a Drake McMansion than the neglected 50s modern thing which it replaced...
 
generalcanada said:
Hey Nice pictures, but before you make up your mind take a few photos of the log flume ride. Very convenient you left that massive dump of an attraction out
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Why can't you go there and take pics yourself and post them here. I mean, what did your last slave die of? 🙀
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
Why can't you go there and take pics yourself and post them here. I mean, what did your last slave die of? 🙀
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that's because it's been fenced off and inaccessible for the last 7 years. I could make an argument that Ontario Place's west island is less accessible than what it would be in the future with this plan
But if people really want to see sure ill take pictures of the dilapidated areas and post them.
 
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