Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
- Thread starter JasonParis
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Everyone else west of Victoria Park will have to stand.
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thettctransitfanatic
Senior Member
What a very epic solution to Scarborough transit...
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Update from today's board meeting:
pstogios
Senior Member
I’m still very underwhelmed by the “accelerated” timeline of this project. 2029 is 20 years too late for this line.
Or didn’t any relevant politician not witness the chaos on Line 1 this week? We are supposed to live with 10 more years of such fiascos?
If this was accelerated to 2025, then we’re talking.
And why is the next milestone, as indicated on that image, as far away as Q4-2019? Why can’t that be moved up to Q3 or Q2? Shouldn’t we be accelerating all phases of this project?
Amare
Senior Member
^Dont buy into that "accelerated" non-sense. Tory is the one who himself pushed the DRL further down the pipeline by prioritizing "Smarttrack" to the point that city staff was taken from focusing on the DRL just to focus on his little pet project.
If anything, he just managed to get it back to the timeline it would've been if it weren't for his delusion when it comes to transit. This just proves that at the bare minimum, he wasted 2 years in the DRL's construction pipeline.
If anything, he just managed to get it back to the timeline it would've been if it weren't for his delusion when it comes to transit. This just proves that at the bare minimum, he wasted 2 years in the DRL's construction pipeline.
pstogios
Senior Member
Fine.
This doesn’t take away from the fact that 2029 is much too far away and we need to get this done much much sooner.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
2029, is a mere 10 years from now. Both TYSSE and Eglinton Crosstown Central took (are taking) a decade to build. It's very unfortunate transit isn't expanded in this region at the rate it is being constructed in other jurisdictions (Vancouver, Montreal in a local context come to mind) but that's just the political nature of where we are now.
salsa
Senior Member
I'm not looking forward to the day when we hear the timelines for any of the additional phases of the relief line.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I'm a little skeptical of the claim, but it could be true, that the construction capabilities are limited to very few hands in the GTHA for projects like massive transit ones. That Crosslinx needed various construction companies in the consortium might be indicative of that. At the least, the contractors for tunnel boring are limited, and a limited pool doesn't bode well for bid price and experience of acumen.
To an extent, that's reflected in the SmartTrack fiasco, albeit funding was always a challenge from the start. The cost of napkins and crayons must also be taken into account.
Whatever, the timelines being touted are pretty....sigh..'provincial' compared to other nations, let alone as stated "Van and Montreal". REM is moving very fast, albeit I haven't checked in on it lately.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Yes, I'm very impressed by the progress of REM. Seems the Skytrain is expanding soon to Langley and UBC as well, which if done I'd consider their rapid transit system complete. And didn't Madrid go from virtually zero subways in the nineties to over 200km of it today? Not to knock what's been done here of late (TYSSE, Crosstown) but demand has definitely outpaced the rate of growth (expansion). And with the population expanding by 100,000 per year in the GTA, it's gonna be a whole lot darker before the dawn! By the time the 8-stop phase one of the DRL is complete, the second and third phases (north to Sheppard, west to Roncesvalles) will need to begin almost immediately.
steveintoronto
Superstar
^I did just check in briefly on REM progress, and it is having a lot of issues, almost all predictable due to the nature of the investment: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mont...-network-as-chorus-of-concern-grows-1.4617428
https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...to-scrap-the-rem-and-extend-transport-network
but our mutually (and more) agreed acknowledgement of how fast it's moving in terms of construction stands. REM's pains are not technical, but organizational and political. A case to learn from. The funding model certainly makes a point of being possible in Canada, and on a massive scale.
Put all the eggs in one basket: Make it Rapid Rail, and don't just build one stretch, and then twiddle thumbs, commit to a 'scheme of size' that will benefit the entire GTHA, not just Toronto, but build continuously for the entire project, opening segments as they are completed.
It's going to be a massive investment, the funding of which is a topic in itself (I don't see how it can be anything but P3+) so instead of trying to keep adding-on to a crumbling subway that needs upkeep multiples more than expansion, make the giant investment of 'Regional Rapid Rail' loop through Toronto, or don't do it all.
For what it's worth, I'd tie Scarborough into it too, using the SRT guideway (already standard track gauge) and connect it in on to the Unionville tracks, alternate trains going to Unionville or STC with a later extension from the STC as per the SRT was always proposed to do.
Junctions can also be made into Union or into the core, and through to the western side. One size fits all. The time for bitty piecemeal projects stopping and starting has to end. Toronto now is a mish-mash of incompatible systems. It's time to look at the bigger picture, and where to put the large sums of money, public and private, to best use. And that's making the same system good for local and long distance regional.
The three Rs: Regional Rapid Rail.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...to-scrap-the-rem-and-extend-transport-network
but our mutually (and more) agreed acknowledgement of how fast it's moving in terms of construction stands. REM's pains are not technical, but organizational and political. A case to learn from. The funding model certainly makes a point of being possible in Canada, and on a massive scale.
I take that one step further even: In the next year, figure out once and for all what rolling stock and gauge is to be used, as the choice will forever 'set the mould' on what can be cast from there-on, and the attractiveness for private investment in a P3 arrangement. I've made it clear prior what my choice is, and this should be especially easy for Metrolinx once the inevitable upload happens:
Put all the eggs in one basket: Make it Rapid Rail, and don't just build one stretch, and then twiddle thumbs, commit to a 'scheme of size' that will benefit the entire GTHA, not just Toronto, but build continuously for the entire project, opening segments as they are completed.
It's going to be a massive investment, the funding of which is a topic in itself (I don't see how it can be anything but P3+) so instead of trying to keep adding-on to a crumbling subway that needs upkeep multiples more than expansion, make the giant investment of 'Regional Rapid Rail' loop through Toronto, or don't do it all.
For what it's worth, I'd tie Scarborough into it too, using the SRT guideway (already standard track gauge) and connect it in on to the Unionville tracks, alternate trains going to Unionville or STC with a later extension from the STC as per the SRT was always proposed to do.
Junctions can also be made into Union or into the core, and through to the western side. One size fits all. The time for bitty piecemeal projects stopping and starting has to end. Toronto now is a mish-mash of incompatible systems. It's time to look at the bigger picture, and where to put the large sums of money, public and private, to best use. And that's making the same system good for local and long distance regional.
The three Rs: Regional Rapid Rail.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Shallow construction opens up the field to more able contractors. That's another problem with all the deep bore construction they are planning - much fewer have the expertise to do the work.
steveintoronto
Superstar
It brings us back to a point you oft make: Elevated sections. There's many more bridge builders than there are tunnellers, not to mention how much cheaper and faster it is to build.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Recent Headlines:
- Vancouver uses elevated transit to achieve largest metro system in Canada.
- Montreal planning elevated transit to become largest metro system in Canada.
- Toronto proudly announces that next 2 subway projects will be the deepest in the system - no funding available or construction actually planned.