Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

T-Bor said:
Any chance the $8B figure would include electrification? Probably can't run electric trains (which he mentions buying) without electrifying the lines
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It most certainly does, but even GO's own electrification study had the cost of electrifying the entire Lakeshore and Kitchener corridors at $1.8 billion. 4x the cost for less track, and the track that it does have a substantial portion of which overlaps GO's plan, just doesn't make any sense to me.
 
There isn't $8 Billion worth of anything in this plan. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I think someone on Tory's team really screwed up the costing of this. Either that or they're planning to make this thing ridiculously overbuilt.

Even without the costing issue this plan makes zero sense. Tory could just ask Metrolinx to add a few more stops on the GO lines once electrification is complete and work with the TTC and ML for fare integration. This would cost only a few hundred million dollars at most and would accomplish the exact same thing.
 
JasonParis said:
John Tory has released his DRL map...

View attachment 27123

This is a hybrid plan that would mostly use existing rail corridors and run through the already at-capacity Union. It's also obviously designed to appease Etobicoke and Scarborough. Granted, it's not completely non-sensical, but also isn't the DRL many of us envisioned. I'd also suggest that no stops between Liberty Village and Bloor is a bit insane. In fact, I'd suggest about four more stops are needed between Main and Dundas West.

There's a lot of unknowns here too and the comparison to London is a bit strange, especially considering the London Overground used abandoned and underused rail corridors, not some of the busiest on the continent. Moreover, the DRL will run surface-style along Eglinton West (is the Richview Corridor even large enough for heavy rail?).
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Union Station will just become more crowded under Tory's napkin plan. Any DRL should be located away from Union (north preferably, but south has the space available).

Anyone notice the "station/stop" at Scarlett? Close to Rob Ford's house. Which he wouldn't use anyways.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
There isn't $8 Billion worth of anything in this plan. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I think someone on Tory's team really screwed up the costing of this. Either that or they're planning to make this thing ridiculously overbuilt.
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TheTigerMaster said:
It most certainly does, but even GO's own electrification study had the cost of electrifying the entire Lakeshore and Kitchener corridors at $1.8 billion. 4x the cost for less track, and the track that it does have a substantial portion of which overlaps GO's plan, just doesn't make any sense to me.
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Thinking about it a bit more, I suspect the number is coming from the last DRL study's "Lakeshore RT" option. That proposed a mostly surface-subway service along the rail corridor between Rouge Hill and Long Branch. I forget specifics, but that was costed at about 8 billion for ~50km.

The reason for the steep cost was that the proposal assumed a good number of underground segments (e.g. a Union tunnel), as well as numerous elevated sections.

A Tory staffer probably just applied those costs to their proposal.
 
The GO electrification study also had the entire network (from Barrie to Stouffville to Kitchener to St. Catherines) being electrified for $3.2 billion, so...
 
cause the lakeshore RT had to fit itself around GO service through the use of expensive tunnels and elevated portions, while the $3.2 billion is strictly buying new trains and stringing some electrical supply wires up over the existing tracks. The Electrification study presumed that All Day GO services would already be implemented.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
So what's the explanation for the massive discrepancy between GO electrification and the TTC's Lakeshore RT?
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The TTC's Lakeshore RT involved substantial property expropriation, elevated sections and tunnelled sections. It basically assumed no coordination with ML and that it would just expropriate an entirely new corridor next to the existing, elevate where that wasn't feasible and tunnel where that wasn't feasible.
 
diminutive said:
Thinking about it a bit more, I suspect the number is coming from the last DRL study's "Lakeshore RT" option. That proposed a mostly surface-subway service along the rail corridor between Rouge Hill and Long Branch. I forget specifics, but that was costed at about 8 billion for ~50km.

The reason for the steep cost was that the proposal assumed a good number of underground segments (e.g. a Union tunnel), as well as numerous elevated sections.

A Tory staffer probably just applied those costs to their proposal.
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They said they would be no underground segments.
 
Adjei said:
They said they would be no underground segments.
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Which makes the cost estimate even more confusing. Like diminutive said, a Tory staffer just likely looked at the cost of the Lakeshore RT, or the DRL Subway, or both, and used that for their cost estimate.

In either case, this drastically inflated cost estimate makes me seriously question any other numbers Tory throws out there. I wonder what other numbers he's thrown out there that are inflated by the same factor of 4.
 
gweed123 said:
Which makes the cost estimate even more confusing. Like diminutive said, a Tory staffer just likely looked at the cost of the Lakeshore RT, or the DRL Subway, or both, and used that for their cost estimate.

In either case, this drastically inflated cost estimate makes me seriously question any other numbers Tory throws out there. I wonder what other numbers he's thrown out there that are inflated by the same factor of 4.
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It's also pretty damn clear he did not consult with Metrolinx about it first either. Having them on-board is essential for this plan to have a hope.
 
rbt said:
It's also pretty damn clear he did not consult with Metrolinx about it first either. Having them on-board is essential for this plan to have a hope.
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Very true, especially since his plan is basically usurping all of one GO REX line and key portions of several others.
 
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