Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

And extending it to the business park near the airport ... but not TO the airport?

I'd think the airport is covered by the UPX.

Going to the business park in Mississauga is one of the things I like about this plan, and I think it's the only plan I've seen that brings rapid transit there. The Eg West extension would turn north to the airport before going there.

From what I've read as well as personal experience, there is a massive amount of employment there. For me there's a very real possibility that future job opportunities may be there, and it would be great not to have to drive on a congested highway to get there.
 
So if you work at the business park, you take the subway all the way back to Mount Dennis, and change to the UPX, with it's $20+ premium fare?

Um... if I understand correctly, this proposed line by Tory would be a normal TTC fare and go to the business park, whereas the UPX would go to the airport and cost premium fare.
 
Um... if I understand correctly, this proposed line by Tory would be a normal TTC fare and go to the business park, whereas the UPX would go to the airport and cost premium fare.
Unless Tory has said something about the UPX I'm not aware of.
 
I think I'd prefer the real DRL route, but on the other hand the fact that a tunnelled subway will take 10-15 years in the best case honestly makes me feel like it's indefinitely in the future, and makes me not want to care.

The thing I like about the GO RER plans and this plan is that it could possibly be done in less than 10 years, or some lines and improvements even less than 5 years.

The number of years until completion matters a lot to me. I know some will say that long term & future generations is what matters, but I can't bring myself to care about things in 10-15 years later as much. If something can happen in 7 years instead of 15 that's a huge advantage to me since that's 8 more years of my life that I can actually use the transit line.

It also seems like the need is there in our city to do things sooner rather than in 10-15 years or beyond.

Very good points. It's for this reason why I think the DRL should be incorporated into the GO REX system. GO REX with all lines running into Union gets up and running in 5-10 years, covering most of the region. This provides immediate relief, although admittedly not to the extent that some would like.

While GO REX is getting up and running, the various planning studies are undertaken for the GO REX DRL tunnel, from around Bloor-Dundas West/Roncesvalles (two branches serving 3 lines) to just east of Gerrard Square and up to Lawrence & Don Mills. The planning and construction period takes the usual 10-15 years, and after completion the 'overlap' routes get layered on top of the existing GO REX routes, boosting capacity and frequencies on most lines, and reducing the pressure on Union.

At least with this plan, it's incremental improvements that will actually have an effect, as opposed to a combination of sitting around waiting and applying band-aid solutions.

So if you work at the business park, you take the subway all the way back to Mount Dennis, and change to the UPX, with it's $20+ premium fare?

Or just hop on a MiWay Transitway route to the airport? I agree though, there should be at least a branch of the line serving the airport directly.
 
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The Eglinton West portion of the line would hardly be used..


On the whole I think this is a decent proposal, and a good notion of what GTA regional rail could look like. Some aspects are a bit odd, and I wouldn’t want to accept it as is, but this is a good starting point for how to start a RER type system in Toronto.

I’d personally add stations where the line intersects with the the streetcars downtown, to improve connectivity to local services (which would add about two stations between Liberty Village and Dundas West. I’d also add one or two stations between the Unilever site and Union. The Eglinton West portion of this is a bit odd…

Depending on the connection with the transitway though, it could well generate more ridership than a connection to YYZ (which, presumably, could be served by a future branch anyways). It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if Eglinton West got more ridership than serving YYZ (a site whose overall significance as a transit destination has been hugely exaggerated by almost everyone.

And why is the connection to 2BD all the way at Main Station? Further west would provide greater relief value, as well as make a future Don Mills subway possible. There wouldn't be any less service in the east if he did this since there'd still be 15 minute all day GO service there.

A connection at Pape probably would generate slightly more transfers, but likely not a huge difference. Donlands, Greenwood and Woodbine are fairly low ridership stations which, presumably, wouldn’t hugely impact link volumes. Offsetting the lower ridership at Main and Kennedy, there would be two interchanges rather than one, which would improve diversion. Compared to current commutes, an earlier interchange would also lead to shorter commutes since relatively more time would be spent on the ‘express’ line vs. BD, which in turn would lead to a greater propensity to take the express route in the first place.

As it is, the DRL would only be <5minutes quicker than the status quo. A trip from Kennedy to Union would go from nearly 20 stops to 5 or 6, and a trip from Main Station would go from about 15 to 4 or 5. Further, riders on feeder routes in Scarborough who would normally feed into the DRL via BD would be partialy diverted by the line along the Stouffville Corridor, as well as Finch, Steeles and Sheppard riders who currently feed onto Yonge.

Whether or not the Smartrack (Stupid name…) precludes a ‘Don Mills subway’ is kind of irrelevant, since evidence suggests such a line would have miserable ridership. Insertnamehere has made this point repeatedly; ridership would never, ever, justify a subway north of Danfroth along Pape/Don Mills.

'This line doesn't serve downtown and won't relieve the streetcar networks.’


Well, that’s a tricky goal. It would be extremely difficult to build a subway line along King or Queen to do that. While any subway would obviously be quicker than our miserable streetcars, faster travel speeds would be swamped pretty quickly by higher access times due to (necessarily) wider station spacing and deep stations. The DRL stud showed just how little a King subway would do in terms of ‘relieving’ the streetcar network.
 
I'm having a really hard time understanding the point of Tory's proposal. What does this thing accomplish that 15 min all day two way electrified GO service wouldn't? I feel like I'm missing something.

Also, why is Tory's proposal so expensive compared to GO electrification? Electrification of Lakeshore and Georgetown would only cost $1.8 Billion compared to $8 Billion for the Tory plan.
 
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I'm having a really hard time understanding the point of Tory's proposal. What does this thing accomplish that 15 min all day two way electrified GO service wouldn't? I feel like I'm missing something.

Well, as far as I've seen, none of the proposals for frequent GO service have mentioned either fare integration or tighter stop spacing.

True regional metros have several components beyond frequency of service. They need to be fully integrated with other layers of transit. That needs both frequent station spacing (to allow interchanges with feeder routes) as well fare integration and coordination

Existing announcements have dealt with frequent service, but not the other aspects of regional metros.
 
I agree with you. But that still doesn't account for the 4x greater cost of the Tory proposal vs. GO electrification.

Yea, I've got no idea what that price is including... It seems much higher than what I'd expect from what I understand of the project.

My guess is they are attributing some sort of Union station tunnel to the project. Either that or the new corridor along Eglinton West is dragging the price up.
 
Or just hop on a MiWay Transitway route to the airport?
In reality, yes, that's what you'd do.

I'm actually hoping that the opposite works once the UPX opens. Take the train to the airport, and then hop MiWay or GO to various points in Mississauga/Brampton.
 
I agree with you. But that still doesn't account for the 4x greater cost of the Tory proposal vs. GO electrification.

That was one of the first things that caught my eye as well. $8 billion is full DRL-type numbers, not GO REX-type numbers. Especially since the bulk of the infrastructure (i.e. Georgetown South project) necessary to support this type of service is already there.
 
There would be a lot of station upgrades and in some situations, building them from scratch. Maybe there would be some sort of Union tunnel. You'd imagine there'd have to be
 
There would be a lot of station upgrades and in some situations, building them from scratch. Maybe there would be some sort of Union tunnel. You'd imagine there'd have to be

Article here specifically mentions "no part is underground". http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...53-km-relief-line-from-unionville-to-airport/

The more I think about it, the less the $8 billion figure makes any sense what-so-ever. Even rebuilt fancy stations or new infill wouldn't come close to that total.
 
Any chance the $8B figure would include electrification? Probably can't run electric trains (which he mentions buying) without electrifying the lines
 

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