Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

nfitz said:
I don't think they'd build the relief line far enough south to intersect Lower Spadina Avenue. It would surely stay north of the Gardiner.

And even then, should a relief line be that convenient for BMO Field? It won't be designed for occasional events. I doubt the station would be south of King. King and Dufferin? King and the Kitchener/Barrie line? It's still going to be a bit of a hike. BMO Field already has a GO station, which currently has service to Union every 30 minutes off-peak.

There's lots of reasons to build Phase 1 west of Spadina. The biggest being that King is already a disaster zone between Spadina and Bathurst in rush hour ... and will only get worse if everyone has to board streetcars at King/Spadina. I'd think Bathurst would be a logocal end point for Phase 1. It's only 600 metres further west than Spadina, and doesn't sterilize future options.
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I hope you're right. A subway from Bathurst to Yonge would be a game-changer for getting to places downtown.
 
nfitz said:
I don't think they'd build the relief line far enough south to intersect Lower Spadina Avenue. It would surely stay north of the Gardiner.

And even then, should a relief line be that convenient for BMO Field? It won't be designed for occasional events. I doubt the station would be south of King. King and Dufferin? King and the Kitchener/Barrie line? It's still going to be a bit of a hike. BMO Field already has a GO station, which currently has service to Union every 30 minutes off-peak.

There's lots of reasons to build Phase 1 west of Spadina. The biggest being that King is already a disaster zone between Spadina and Bathurst in rush hour ... and will only get worse if everyone has to board streetcars at King/Spadina. I'd think Bathurst would be a logocal end point for Phase 1. It's only 600 metres further west than Spadina, and doesn't sterilize future options.
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There is currently a connection to Atlantic Avenue (and Liberty Village) at the Exhibition Go station that connects as well to Exhibition Place and the streetcar loop. If there was a rapid transit station there as well, it can draw users away from the 504 King, 63 Ossington, and 511 Bathurst in the area just for regular use.

There are other draws that the Relief Line can help, in addition to Exhibition Place, SkyDome (Rogers Centre), and the ACC. There's the Science Centre, should they extend it, at minimum, up there.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The Relief Line's southern terminal should not be Lower Spadina. It should be Exhibition Place. If BMO field is to expand, it would be better if a higher capacity rapid transit line can reduce the need for parking at Exhibition Place.
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If you're going to go as far as Exhibition, might as well go to Sunnyside, or if you're going to go as far as Sunnyside, might as well go to Dundas West. The scope creep in the west end is irresistible, especially given than an extraction shaft will need to be built somewhere past University for the TBMs. Either make a hard stop at Pecaut Square, or extend it to Dundas West.
 
It's a tough call on whether or not the western part of the DRL needs to run along King West or if intersecting it at one or a couple points will be enough relief. As for BMO Field, if a DRL is going to serve there, it might as well be on a Lakeshore alignment and serving the entire western waterfront. There's no sense in having a line that crosses the rail corridor around or west of Spadina, hits the Ex, then crosses them again to go northward.

Either stick south of the rail corridor for the entire alignment (my earlier de-coupling scenario is an example of that), or stick along Wellington/King for the entire alignment. A hybrid option makes a second rail-based solution in the area much more difficult. The options as I see them are as follows. Keep in mind that these are just general:

1) Subway north of rail corridor, LRT south of it.

2) Subway south of rail corridor, improved streetcar service north of it.

3) Subway south of rail corridor, underground LRT north of it.

4) Branched subway service, one branch north of rail corridor, one branch south to the Ex.

The reality is a single line isn't going to serve both of north and south of the rail corridor, so trying to make it do so just compromises it to the point where it's not very effective at serving either. 2 lines, or a branch type of service is going to be needed no matter what option is chosen. It's really just a question of which area gets what.
 
dunkalunk said:
If you're going to go as far as Exhibition, might as well go to Sunnyside, or if you're going to go as far as Sunnyside, might as well go to Dundas West. The scope creep in the west end is irresistible, especially given than an extraction shaft will need to be built somewhere past University for the TBMs. Either make a hard stop at Pecaut Square, or extend it to Dundas West.
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It will be almost impossible to tunnel the DRL through the downtown core - there will be a point where it will be cut and cover - with the deep building basements and foundations TBMs will not work
 
how so? Between Yonge and University I can see it being required to cut and cover (no point to relaunch the TBMs for a couple hundred meters), as well as the fact that the tracks will have to be very deep, but why can't it use TBMs? run them on the two sides of the YUS line.
 
innsertnamehere said:
how so? Between Yonge and University I can see it being required to cut and cover (no point to relaunch the TBMs for a couple hundred meters), as well as the fact that the tracks will have to be very deep, but why can't it use TBMs? run them on the two sides of the YUS line.
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Exactly.

I think people forget that Yonge to University is only 550 metres at King. Toss in the platforms, and utility areas, and you'd only be tunnelling 300 metres. They'd likely use cut-and-cover for that distance anywhere. By the time you get to where the TBM would launch near Simcoe and Victoria, you are past the worst of it.
 
All I can say is that the logistics of this will be horrible. Shutting down the PATH for years on end, blocking off some major artery of some form through downtown.. *shudders* downtown will be a hellhole for 6 or 7 years in terms of getting around.
 
W. K. Lis said:
There is currently a connection to Atlantic Avenue (and Liberty Village) at the Exhibition Go station that connects as well to Exhibition Place and the streetcar loop. If there was a rapid transit station there as well, it can draw users away from the 504 King, 63 Ossington, and 511 Bathurst in the area just for regular use.

There are other draws that the Relief Line can help, in addition to Exhibition Place, SkyDome (Rogers Centre), and the ACC. There's the Science Centre, should they extend it, at minimum, up there.
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A Waterfront West LRT would serve a few of those destinations as well, should it be built.

Personally, I am a fan of building the WWLRT and DRL Phase 1 simultaneously.
 
all of those already have access to the waterfront streetcar / LRT. The science centre is going to have access from Eglinton.

None of them are major trip generators really anyway.
 
innsertnamehere said:
All I can say is that the logistics of this will be horrible. Shutting down the PATH for years on end, blocking off some major artery of some form through downtown.. *shudders* downtown will be a hellhole for 6 or 7 years in terms of getting around.
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WislaHD said:
A Waterfront West LRT would serve a few of those destinations as well, should it be built.

Personally, I am a fan of building the WWLRT and DRL Phase 1 simultaneously.
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I think you two along with some people should be there on saturday.

CityPlaceN1 said:
I'm planning to.
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See you there.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I'm going to the meeting on Saturday, who will be there?
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I was hoping to, but I need to stay in Ottawa until Saturday morning, which means I won't be in until after the meeting is over. Hopefully some people in attendance will give us an overview of what happened, haha.
 
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