Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

ssiguy2 said:
.... while a brand new 11km automated line with 6 new stations and bus bays, 1.5km of underground, total exclusive elevated rail for the non-underground part come in at $1.4 billion in Vancouver?
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Because it didn't come in at $1.4bil, not even close. The total cost of the line was almost $2.1bil in 2009 dollars.

Hmm, all of a sudden those costs here don't seem so far out of line, do they?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
Because it didn't come in at $1.4bil, not even close. The total cost of the line was almost $2.1bil in 2009 dollars.

Hmm, all of a sudden those costs here don't seem so far out of line, do they?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Huh? I think you're confusing the Canada Line (>2b) for the Evergreen Line that ssiguy2 was talking about (11km, 1.4b).
 
rbt said:
Those Weston residents are suddenly crazy people rather than a group to be catered to.
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Since when aren't crazy people to be catered to? I mean, look at this hubub over the SRT. It's not like numbers and facts were really central to much. The core issue is that our political institutions responsible for building infrastructure in this Country/Province/City are terrible, which allows extremely marginal groups to have disproportionate influence.


rbt said:
I always assumed we didn't try to estimate construction impact due to liability reasons but if it's a non-significant figure then we should be including it.
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There wouldn't be a liability issue. Motorists don't have a Charter right to congestion free travel and there's no obligation on the Govt or any related party to opt for the option which absolutely minimizes disruptions, all other considerations be damned. This is exactly what happened when that Cambie Street merchant's case got tossed out by the Supreme Court; the Canada Line Consortium was found to have gone through all proper regulatory steps prior to construction and hence there was no liability for construction relayed disruptions.
 
There is a very good reason why at least some portion of the DRL (i.e. the part closest to the core) will have to be deep(er) - the YUS line is so close to the ground in downtown that you can't possibly have it run above it. And even if you can run the tracks above it, you'd have no room for a bi-level stations with mezzanine needed for most island platform arrangements.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
There is a very good reason why at least some portion of the DRL (i.e. the part closest to the core) will have to be deep(er) - the YUS line is so close to the ground in downtown that you can't possibly have it run above it. And even if you can run the tracks above it, you'd have no room for a bi-level stations with mezzanine needed for most island platform arrangements.

AoD
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Yup, which I believe is why the best to build a TBM launch shaft is Clarence Square (Wellington and Spadina). Unfortunately, there isn't really a good site for an extraction site on the east side of downtown.
 
gweed:

Depending on how line will cross the Don and the alignment - maybe somewhere out at Eastern Ave.? Or do it the way they did with one of the TBMs with the Chunnel - steer it off and bury it.

AoD
 
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nfitz said:
It's a good point ... but surely a bit disingenuous to suggest disingenuity.

Each case is different. Can you imagine the benefit we'd have now if the Bloor-Danforth line had used TBMs for more than a couple of very short segments? The stations would be far more relevantly located than they are now.
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But imagine if someone said that the only options were to use TBM, or have no subway at all. It may have been delayed for decades.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
gweed:

Depending on how line will cross the Don and the alignment - maybe somewhere out at Eastern Ave.? Or do it the way they did with one of the TBMs with the Chunnel - steer it off and bury it.

AoD
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Maybe Simpson Park at Queen and Empire? Near the rail corridor. That is where the construction method will likely switch from TBM to either cut and cover or at-grade in order to run along the rail corridor for a bit.

It will need to be a deep shaft at Wellington and Spadina though, because it's going to have to tunnel underneath quite a bit of stuff.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
There is a very good reason why at least some portion of the DRL (i.e. the part closest to the core) will have to be deep(er) - the YUS line is so close to the ground in downtown that you can't possibly have it run above it. And even if you can run the tracks above it, you'd have no room for a bi-level stations with mezzanine needed for most island platform arrangements.

AoD
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I will again reference this idea. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=670156

The amount of money to be saved by going above Yonge and University would be huge. Not just the 2 interchange stations, but the adjacent 2 stations either way would also be much shallower and much less expensive.
 
TBMs aren't a terribly mature technology back in the 60s in the first place. In any case, back to the DRL - cut and cover or TBM, the downtown section of the DRL will have to be deep and not cheap, regardless of any secondary considerations such as road closures, etc. You simply don't have a choice.

AoD
 
You are digging up two EW right of ways with two sets of stations (plus connecting tunnels) - whatever savings going shallow offer, I highly, highly doubt it is worth that trouble, cost and the negative impact it has on wayfinding and operations.

Let me put it another way - if we can find the money to expand a subway to Scarborough, we can certainly find enough to not nickel and dime about shaving a few million here and there for a line that will be carrying far more traffic.

AoD
 
Johnny Au said:
It also has to go under Garrison Creek and Taddle Creek as well (although the Eaton Centre is on top of Taddle Creek).
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I thought Garrison Creek was further west. I believe it's parallel with Trinity-Bellwoods Park (runs through it in fact). You can trace the path of it based on satellite images by looking at where the open spaces and where the bends in the street pattern are. That will be an obstacle for the DRL West for sure though. And the DRL will be dug deep enough through downtown that I think station locations will have to deal with relics much more than the actually tunnelling will.
 
There needs to be a TVM to use instead that can vaporize and cut through rock and soil like a hot knife through butter. You could get all the tunneling done for the whole line in just a day or two.
 
gweed123 said:
I thought Garrison Creek was further west. I believe it's parallel with Trinity-Bellwoods Park (runs through it in fact). You can trace the path of it based on satellite images by looking at where the open spaces and where the bends in the street pattern are. That will be an obstacle for the DRL West for sure though. And the DRL will be dug deep enough through downtown that I think station locations will have to deal with relics much more than the actually tunnelling will.
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Many popular DRL plans go west of Garrison Creek.
 
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