Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

AlvinofDiaspar said:
The project is very budget constrained, and the station isn't THAT close to NYGH. In any case, doesn't the hospital have some responsibility to ensure that they are transit friendly (and it had an expansion after Sheppard opened).

Anyways, getting OT.

AoD
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Sheppard Leslie.jpeg


A parking garage, green space on both sides of Leslie Street, a ramp, a big parking lot, Old Leslie Street, a condo, and another parking lot. Those parking lots could definitely be ripped up and something better, like a North York General Hospital expansion, could be put in with good access to Leslie Subway Station and a new Oriole GO Station.
 

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Remember that the Richmond Hill GO Line will not have all day two-way service in the medium term future, this is why the Relief Line North is being planned. If the Richmond Hill Line could be used as relief for the Yonge Subway, it would. However, since it would cost too much to get a new alignment and/or double track the line, the Relief Line is going forward instead. So I'd recommend not discussing the moving of Oriole GO Station (even thought it will attract riders from the Yonge Line), and to focus on the Relief Line, which this thread is about.
 
How much would it cost to get 2WAD on RH line? DRL long should be in the ballpark of $10-15 billion. Surely it wouldn't cost fifteen billion to upgrade RH.
 
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Leo_Chan said:
Remember that the Richmond Hill GO Line will not have all day two-way service in the medium term future, this is why the Relief Line North is being planned. If the Richmond Hill Line could be used as relief for the Yonge Subway, it would. However, since it would cost too much to get a new alignment and/or double track the line, the Relief Line is going forward instead. So I'd recommend not discussing the moving of Oriole GO Station (even thought it will attract riders from the Yonge Line), and to focus on the Relief Line, which this thread is about.
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Travel time from Oriole to Union is 27 to 29 minutes. Sheppard to Union is only 24 minutes. Currently it's a 450 metre (5-minute) walk from the north end of the GO platform to Leslie station.

It's never going to be that useful as a DRL Especially as most people aren't going to Union. The station with the most arrivals downtown is Dundas. You can get right there in 31 minutes on the subway, compared with 27 to 29 minutes on GO, a 5-minute walk to the subway platform, and then 3 more minutes on the subway - 35 to 37 minutes. And that doesnt even count the time to get from Leslie to Oriole.

Might be useful for someone working in Union Station itself.

Though with them shifting the GO platform about 175 metres further north this year that will reduce a bit. (if they got their act together, and put a walkway over Esther Shiner, that leaves only a 175-metre walk to the subway station.
 
nfitz said:
Travel time from Oriole to Union is 27 to 29 minutes. Sheppard to Union is only 24 minutes. Currently it's a 450 metre (5-minute) walk from the north end of the GO platform to Leslie station.

It's never going to be that useful as a DRL Especially as most people aren't going to Union. The station with the most arrivals downtown is Dundas. You can get right there in 31 minutes on the subway, compared with 27 to 29 minutes on GO, a 5-minute walk to the subway platform, and then 3 more minutes on the subway - 35 to 37 minutes. And that doesnt even count the time to get from Leslie to Oriole.

Might be useful for someone working in Union Station itself.

Though with them shifting the GO platform about 175 metres further north this year that will reduce a bit. (if they got their act together, and put a walkway over Esther Shiner, that leaves only a 175-metre walk to the subway station.
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Neutrino said:
How much would it cost to get 2WAD on RH line? DRL long should be in the ballpark of $10-15 billion. Surely it wouldn't cost fifteen billion to upgrade RH.
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A lot. They have to raise the grade on the track, to avoid flooding. Might have to do the DVP as well.

And the demand is very low - it might relieve Leslie station slightly, but not Langstaff, as few who'd board there are travelling all the way to Union. It would more complement the DRL than compete with it. It's taking you to the wrong place, and not doing it quickly. Perhaps if they could move to the shorter, straighter, CP alignment, they could do better - but that would be even more expensive. It's value in the modelling to relieve anything vanished, when the almost instantaneous transfer between Line 5 and the RH line between Wynford and Sloan was removed. Again, this might work better at Leslie, but would be expensive.
 
I think it would be a huge waste of precious transit funds if Toronto went ahead with the DRL as 3rd gauge as opposed to catenary subway where the line could also be used by RER, even if only in an emergency at Union. Wouldn't cost a cent more but would be killing 2 birds with one stone. Also make northern expansion up to York Region one day be far faster and cheaper to build by simply upgrading the current RH line as opposed to having to build a new subway from scratch.

Has this idea been proposed to the TTC/Metrolinx/Mayor's Office?
 
Neutrino said:
How much would it cost to get 2WAD on RH line? DRL long should be in the ballpark of $10-15 billion. Surely it wouldn't cost fifteen billion to upgrade RH.
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7-12 billion of that is entirely for DRL short, only between Danforth and University. Considering all the watershed work that needs to occur on the RH line to bring it up to par, it makes more fiscal sense to just stick with the subway. Plus, making the Don Valley look like an old rail corridor instead of a park is really really shortsighted.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I think it would be a huge waste of precious transit funds if Toronto went ahead with the DRL as 3rd gauge as opposed to catenary subway where the line could also be used by RER, even if only in an emergency at Union. Wouldn't cost a cent more but would be killing 2 birds with one stone. Also make northern expansion up to York Region one day be far faster and cheaper to build by simply upgrading the current RH line as opposed to having to build a new subway from scratch.

Has this idea been proposed to the TTC/Metrolinx/Mayor's Office?
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The TTC and City hall have made it clear that they intend for it to be part of the existing TTC subway network and that they want to use Greenwood yard for the DRL trains. The idea of it being part of the RER plan is a fantasy of board members her and nothing more, they say that Metrolinx wants to do it but I doubt the city of Toronto is going to let them do it.
 
nfitz said:
A lot. They have to raise the grade on the track, to avoid flooding. Might have to do the DVP as well.
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I don't think AD2W would cost *that* much, nor believe flood avoidance by any significant measure would have to be part an upgrade to an AD2W level of service. If electrification, no question. But if using diesel, flooding on the tracks amounts to little more than a service disruption for a few hours each year, if that. Doncaster grade-separation might be a big cost, relatively (~$100M?). The rest would be mostly double tracking, which I don't think would cost too much since there's space along the corridor and unlike other lines little grade-separations are required.

EastYorkTTCFan said:
The TTC and City hall have made it clear that they intend for it to be part of the existing TTC subway network and that they want to use Greenwood yard for the DRL trains. The idea of it being part of the RER plan is a fantasy of board members her and nothing more, they say that Metrolinx wants to do it but I doubt the city of Toronto is going to let them do it.
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They (TTC+City) have said they wish to use TTC subway rolling stock. But they've yet to show even a basic diagram or mention of how they'll connect trains to Line 2 to access Greenwood. And since that time Metrolinx has been given a key role in RL planning. Won't get into the subway vs RER for RL debate, which is largely fantasy. But since the RL is so far in the future, and effectively being planned by two separate entities, I wouldn't rule out some kind of vehicle that differs from TTC subways. Nor would I rule out the possibility of something that could fit the definition of RER. Doesn't have to be GO trains as we know it (could be LRVs with mainline capability). Or it could be a real deal subway/metro, but using vehicles that differ from TTC stock. Or it could very well be TTC stock. But at this point I think it's safe to say that it's still up in the air.
 
Right now, a lot of things are pure speculation. Some are things that do make some sense.

For example, interlining. Right now, Line 2 is not at capacity. So, having the DRL running from Osgoode To Kennedy (STC eventually) would be good till the second phase to Don Mills.
 
micheal_can said:
For example, interlining. Right now, Line 2 is not at capacity. So, having the DRL running from Osgoode To Kennedy (STC eventually) would be good till the second phase to Don Mills.
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Line 2 is getting pretty close to capacity. And even the slightest service hiccup, which happens quite often, puts the line at the breaking point.

But yes an Osgoode to Kennedy service I think could actually have a lot merit. The closest thing I can think of that's ever been officially looked at was pre-Bloor/Danforth construction where planners and pols debated about keeping the line on Bloor/Danforth, or having it form a flying U and diverting downtown via Pape and Keele(?) along Queen. Outside of that never have I heard an interline U with Line 2. Surely a lot of untapped benefit, and boosts RL's ridership significantly by default since it allows a seamless ride to the core from the east. And makes it clear once and for all that there will be a wye at Pape/Danforth, and we will without question use TTC subway rolling stock.
 
The RH Line could be elevated up to street level for easy access which would also keep it out of floods. And connect with the TTC easily before Union.
 
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