Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[superelevation]

Something we should keep in mind when discussing width is that the TR's walls are completely vertical, which maximizes interior space. The Metropolis trains Alstom built for Shanghai are 3.2m in width, but feel more cramped than the TR because it curves in at head height.

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If we get 3.0m wide trains that also curve inwards, that's probably going to be a problem.

Has anything suggested we will? I am not sure why this was posted . . .

Honestly I keep flipping back and forth on whether this line will be overcapacity or not within a few decades but you're right. What I am hoping for is that they at least provide provisions to expand the capacity when the line ultimately becomes sardine'd. I mean, platform extensions for longer trains (that's an easy one), I can't think of anything else besides fixing certain stations *cough* science centre *cough* for better capacity. After all, just because we can build another line, doesn't mean we shouldn't try our best to optimize our lines under development.

Many people are pressed that they aren't getting the full rockets on this line. I think OL is good, and there are ways to push its capacity even further. And, tbh, this is a pretty high capacity light metro, it's not exactly gonna be the SRT or SkyTrain. Could it be more like Sydney Metro, if I could take a guess? I don't know if that's a good comparison, anyways Idk much about trains so I'd like to know of your guesses as to what would be a similar system existing today. Sydney's metro line is being designed with the potential to upgrade capacity to 46k ppdhd by means of extending platforms and higher frequencies.

Its not a light metro, it will be similar in size to sheppard (trains will actually be longer according to reports posted here), just because its smaller than a TR does not mean it is a light metro.

 

[nfitz]

Mind providing the link to the report? I too would like to read the public comments.

Click on the image - I linked it.

Its not a light metro, it will be similar in size to sheppard (trains will actually be longer according to reports posted here), just because its smaller than a TR does not mean it is a light metro.

Who knows what it will be, if anything. Metrolinx has, at times, indicated it would be light metro, using pictures of Line 3 equipment and London Docklands Light Railway equipment.

It's hard to imagine how it could be anything other than heavy rail ... but if you look carefully, the station boxes in the latest round of material are even shorter than previous! Which seems very sort-sighted for a line right through the centre of downtown. Looks more appropriate to suburbia.

 

[NoahB]

Its not a light metro, it will be similar in size to sheppard (trains will actually be longer according to reports posted here), just because its smaller than a TR does not mean it is a light metro.

We can all go into a long-winded discussion about semantics, but the truth there is a huge naming variation between countries and even cities within the same countries around the world.

Anyhow

Click on the image - I linked it.

Who knows what it will be, if anything. Metrolinx has, at times, indicated it would be light metro, using pictures of Line 3 equipment and London Docklands Light Railway equipment.

It's hard to imagine how it could be anything other than heavy rail ... but if you look carefully, the station boxes in the latest round of material are even shorter than previous! Which seems very sort-sighted for a line right through the centre of downtown. Looks more appropriate to suburbia.

The maps used different scales. It was clear that the station's platforms were the only things shown and they were all scaled at 100m. The station box footprints were not shown at all.

I still doubt they will future proof. And I agree that is shortsighted. But hey, at least it will be 100x3 trains instead of 60-120x2.5-2.7 trains like they are building in Paris these days. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[toronto647]

Someone mentioned that there was no need to rush to Eglinton and should have stuck to RL till Pape. Well this just got approved "64 Tall Buildings" just between Vp&Eglinton till VP & Birchmount. Likely going to get to appeal to build more "Tall Buildings". Probably close to 100 I guess just for that small patch lol.... Just imagine the chaos if there is no Ontario Line and everyone is taking the LRT to Yonge & Eglinton. Will be a disaster zone at that point.

Scarborough's massive Golden Mile plan approved by local councillors

Scarborough’s Golden Mile is moving toward some big changes.

www.toronto.com

 

[syn]

Someone mentioned that there was no need to rush to Eglinton and should have stuck to RL till Pape. Well this just got approved "64 Tall Buildings" just between Vp&Eglinton till VP & Birchmount. Likely going to get to appeal to build more "Tall Buildings". Probably close to 100 I guess just for that small patch lol.... Just imagine the chaos if there is no Ontario Line and everyone is taking the LRT to Yonge & Eglinton. Will be a disaster zone at that point.

Scarborough's massive Golden Mile plan approved by local councillors

Scarborough’s Golden Mile is moving toward some big changes.

www.toronto.com

I don't think anyone said that. What was said was that the DRL South plan was already well on it's way, well thought out, and that the government could've put funding behind it and accelerating a DRL North.

I'd also say that whatever plan was used (DRL North or the current OL), not taking it all the way to Don Mills is a huge mistake.

 

[toronto647]

I don't think anyone said that. What was said was that the DRL South plan was already well on it's way, well thought out, and that the government could've put funding behind it and accelerating a DRL North.

I'd also say that whatever plan was used (DRL North or the current OL), not taking it all the way to Don Mills is a huge mistake.

I see and understand what you are saying. Our transit system is at the 11th hour just about to hit the iceberg that Titanic hit. To avoid catastrophe we have no choice besides the Ontario Line. Realistically you and I and everyone on this forum knows that DRL North was highly unlikely to be built by 2040 at the earliest (Pape to Sheppard). At least now by 2030 (a whole decade earlier) we are getting transit to Eglinton. I am certain by 2040 this line will be extended all the way to Steeles at least if not further.

My suggestion is lets support Ford (I don't support his non-transit agendas) and get the Ontario Line built. If we get Steven du Luca the guy is not even capable of building anything as he demonstrated as Minister of Transportation. Time to get shovels in the ground!!

 

[micheal_can]

I see and understand what you are saying. Our transit system is at the 11th hour just about to hit the iceberg that Titanic hit. To avoid catastrophe we have no choice besides the Ontario Line. Realistically you and I and everyone on this forum knows that DRL North was highly unlikely to be built by 2040 at the earliest (Pape to Sheppard). At least now by 2030 (a whole decade earlier) we are getting transit to Eglinton. I am certain by 2040 this line will be extended all the way to Steeles at least if not further.

My suggestion is lets support Ford (I don't support his non-transit agendas) and get the Ontario Line built. If we get Steven du Luca the guy is not even capable of building anything as he demonstrated as Minister of Transportation. Time to get shovels in the ground!!

Toronto's transit situation has been at the 11th hour for decades. It will stay at the 11th hour till you do not have to wait for a second train to come to get on. Realistically, that won't happen even with the OL being built. Maybe with the OL built and GO RER with fare integration, we might get to that point.

 

[toronto647]

Toronto's transit situation has been at the 11th hour for decades. It will stay at the 11th hour till you do not have to wait for a second train to come to get on. Realistically, that won't happen even with the OL being built. Maybe with the OL built and GO RER with fare integration, we might get to that point.

Let me ask you a question. Would you have Ontario line or would you have nothing at all? Its a simple question. Ontario line or nothing?... no ifs, buts etc.. Like let us be straight up about the situation. Its Ontario Line or bust.

 

[Coolstar]

Let me ask you a question. Would you have Ontario line or would you have nothing at all? Its a simple question. Ontario line or nothing?... no ifs, buts etc.. Like let us be straight up about the situation. Its Ontario Line or bust.

Some people in this thread would've prefered RL over the OL.

 

[toronto647]

Some people in this tread would've prefered RL over the OL.

Thats fine they had that preference... I have a preference to eradicate global poverty but let us be realistic. At this point there are only three options.1) Ontario Line 2) Nothing at all. 3) Wait another 6 years (Ford will win 2022 and possibly win 2026 too) at the earliest for Liberals to come into power and cancel the Ontario Line plans and and cement the tunnels and start RLS plans.

Which one of the 3 you or anyone on this forum taking?

 

[Coolstar]

Thats fine they had that preference... I have a preference to eradicate global poverty but let us be realistic. At this point there are only three options.1) Ontario Line 2) Nothing at all. 3) Wait another 6 years (Ford will win 2022 and possibly win 2026 too) at the earliest for Liberals to come into power and cancel the Ontario Line plans and and cement the tunnels and start RLS plans.

Which one of the 3 you or anyone on this forum taking?

I think the current OL plans should move forward and try to finally get shovels in the ground on this project even if it does have it's noticeable flaws that can hopefully become fixed as design for this line continues. Although I do have respect for how well the RL was planned. (Routing, Consultation, etc.)

 

[micheal_can]

Let me ask you a question. Would you have Ontario line or would you have nothing at all? Its a simple question. Ontario line or nothing?... no ifs, buts etc.. Like let us be straight up about the situation. Its Ontario Line or bust.

The OL is more or less the old RL plans, but extends further for phase 1. This is a good start. It will help, but it will not relieve enough. Nothing at all is obviously not the answer, but thinking this will solve all the problems is niave.

 

[99Messier]

The OL is more or less the old RL plans, but extends further for phase 1. This is a good start. It will help, but it will not relieve enough. Nothing at all is obviously not the answer, but thinking this will solve all the problems is niave.

The changes between OL and RL are not earth shattering. A few keys.

1. At-grade through Leslieville. The downside is it might take away space for a GO track. It also led to public complaints and used up political capital. Advantage is the cross-platform connection (which I don't think is a huge deal) and it avoided that silly Carlaw job, that force the RL under a giant sewer line and added to cost.
2. Trains. The downside is that we still don't know exactly what train they are going with, so there is a chance to screw it up. The benefit is that you don't have to blow up the Danforth-Pape intersection to make the track connections.
3. Length . No downside - OL is the clear winner. OL is longer, and that helped open up a bunch of possibilities, such as the ability to find a new train yard and not be tied with TTC subway vehicles, opened the door for elevated portions, much more people benefit and much greater relief to Yonge.
4. Final stations. No downside - OL is clear winner. Similar to north, ending the subway underground at Osgoode or Pape would mean great difficulty in restarting construction. Not just cost, but inconveniencing people who just had their areas excavated for 5 years. OL end near grade at Exhibition (and elevated at Eglinton) making extension so much easier and more likely to happen.

If I had my way, I might have preferred that original Eastern to Pape route, and going under Don River to downtown - but all-in-all, the OL plan is much more thoroughly thought out - and with longer term extension being allowed for as well. Maybe that's the difference between having an Engineer (Vester) compared to a planner (Keesmaat) make the decisions.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Ford will win 2022 and possibly win 2026 too

This is one hell of an assumption, especially regarding 2026. Anything can happen in elections. Plus it certainly feels like Doug doesn't even want to wait until 2022 for an election anyway, but that's another topic.

I also think that yes, realistically we have to accept this flawed project is the subway we are getting, but that does not mean Ford was right to tear up an existing plan vs just expanding it West/North, or that the planned form of the OL is beyond criticism. The idea we should just blindly support whatever is proposed is a flawed argument. I personally think the OL does a much better job than the RL with regard to the alignment of the transfer stations, but the RL had it's own strengths. The reality is, Doug has delayed the implementation of a new subway we desperately need because he wanted to play Mayor of Toronto. That 2027 opening date was always a lie, and we're already seeing Metrolinx increasingly admitting that.

 

[syn]

The changes between OL and RL are not earth shattering. A few keys.

1. At-grade through Leslieville. The downside is it might take away space for a GO track. It also led to public complaints and used up political capital. Advantage is the cross-platform connection (which I don't think is a huge deal) and it avoided that silly Carlaw job, that force the RL under a giant sewer line and added to cost.
2. Trains. The downside is that we still don't know exactly what train they are going with, so there is a chance to screw it up. The benefit is that you don't have to blow up the Danforth-Pape intersection to make the track connections.
3. Length . No downside - OL is the clear winner. OL is longer, and that helped open up a bunch of possibilities, such as the ability to find a new train yard and not be tied with TTC subway vehicles, opened the door for elevated portions, much more people benefit and much greater relief to Yonge.
4. Final stations. No downside - OL is clear winner. Similar to north, ending the subway underground at Osgoode or Pape would mean great difficulty in restarting construction. Not just cost, but inconveniencing people who just had their areas excavated for 5 years. OL end near grade at Exhibition (and elevated at Eglinton) making extension so much easier and more likely to happen.

If I had my way, I might have preferred that original Eastern to Pape route, and going under Don River to downtown - but all-in-all, the OL plan is much more thoroughly thought out - and with longer term extension being allowed for as well. Maybe that's the difference between having an Engineer (Vester) compared to a planner (Keesmaat) make the decisions.

Capacity. Huge downside. So far the OL is lacking in the most important area. It's bad enough that it may already be insufficient by the time it's built.

Verster is not making the decisions. Our illustrious Premier is calling the shots.

I think a more accurate comparison would be the RL, nor the DRL South. The full RL includes a northern extension.