AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I do think they are carrying less items though - 2000 something instead of 3000 in US stores. Re: Muji food - the blogTO article suggest they are looking into carrying it here:
http://www.blogto.com/design/muji-toronto
AoD
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I do think they are carrying less items though - 2000 something instead of 3000 in US stores. Re: Muji food - the blogTO article suggest they are looking into carrying it here:
http://www.blogto.com/design/muji-toronto
AoD
gabe
Senior Member
Our Muji stores will be more expensive and carry less items than the US stores. I hate shopping in Canada.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Not complaining, unless one wants to factor in the expense of travelling to the US to shop there.
AoD
gabe
Senior Member
Canadians are fighting back these days and they want equal pricing and selection. Target and J Crew learned a very expensive lesson. When they first opened their Canadian stores with higher prices and less selection. With the $850 customs limit per person, cross boarder shopping is going nuts.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Until they take into account the exchange rate anyways - while some narrowing of the gap might not be a bad thing, one does have to take into account the higher cost of labour, etc. in Canada.
AoD
spider
Senior Member
Walked into Chapters yesterday to buy a particular book that is advertised on their web site at $22. At the cash I was told that the price printed on the back cover of the book, $36, was what I had to pay. I suggested to the cashier that that was a clever strategy to avoid selling books, she agreed. I bought the book on Amazon with free delivery for $22 CDN.
Yes, I know, I could have bought it for the same price from Chapters but they don't deserve my business.
Yes, I know, I could have bought it for the same price from Chapters but they don't deserve my business.
Skeezix
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In reading this post, every bookseller dies a little inside. Putting aside the question about whether the publisher's price of $36 was fair or not, the business of bookselling is tough and the margins are small (despite being one of the few businesses where unsold stock can be returned to publishers). There is a reason why Indigo/Chapters is selling lots of candles and cashmere throws these days, and why every 6 months or so another independent bookstore in this city goes belly-up. I think it is widely agreed that one can't operate a physical bookstore and compete with Amazon. It's impossible. As customers, if we like the physical bookstore, if we like browsing the shelves, we need to accept that we won't necessarily enjoy the Amazon-type discounts.
Chapters/Indigo does what it has to compete online with Amazon, while at the same time keeping the lights on in its bricks-and-mortar locations. I don't find anything problematic with their strategy.
I don't begrudge you for buying the book on Amazon. We all do it. What I question is the statement "they don't deserve my business". It's okay if you don't want to spend $36 on this particular book (whatever it is). But Chapters/Indigo has hardly done anything to merit your scorn.
^^^ +1000
spider
Senior Member
Yes they do merit my scorn for thinking that I am so stupid that I would line up to pay too much for a product because it is being hawked in a huge store with lovely decor and glossy hardwood floors, a business plan that works for the LCBO but only because they are a monopoly.
Retailers like this are doomed in the current market place if they don't understand that the public is no longer impressed with anything but price. My enjoyment of possessions is not enhanced by how much I paid for them but how little.
khris
Senior Member
I went to Muji yesterday, and they had closed at 5 pm, even though the website says 6. Grr. Glad I live really close.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It's an absolute madhouse - I was there at 1615 and didn't check out until 1700 - be forewarned. They should have taken the Guess space instead.
I hate to be blunt but I think customers like you who demand physical books may also be "doomed" - the market is getting smaller each year and niche products will command higher prices at some point. Besides, you are probably not the segment that offers the highest profit margin. Enjoy the ride.
AoD
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officedweller
Senior Member
The difference is that it was not "advertised" (for the bricks & mortar store) on the website - it was offered for sale THROUGH the website for $22 (likely plus shipping). That channel of trade would have lower costs than the in-store operation incurs.
Unless Chapters has a "price-match" policy, the two channels of trade are distinct, as they incur different overhead costs - i.e. you are paying for "service" from a human being, the transport to the physical store, the rent for the space it occupies on the shelf and the immediate satisfaction you get from having it in hand.
Which, incidentally, is the basis for high end stores like Nordstrom charging more for their products -
I don't know how they'll survive in Canada.
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adHominem
Senior Member
Booksellers don't think you're stupid, they aren't trying to pull one over on you. Notice how the price was printed on the book itself? The publisher sets the price. They sell the book to the shop at a standard discount (generally in the range of 40% off, though it varies from one distributor to the next). That 40% isn't gravy, it goes to pay rent, upkeep, salary, all the other stuff required for a brick-and-mortar store. (I worked in an indie bookshop for 7+ years. Our best year ever, we did around a million in gross sales. After expenses, we made rather less than a hundredth of that. This wasn't a store with lovely decor and glossy hardwood floors, either. It was a rickety place held together with twine and spit because we often couldn't afford basic maintenance.)
Amazon uses their massive size to bully publishers into giving them steeper discounts, they don't have physical stores to pay for, they pay and treat their warehouse staff incredibly poorly, and they have no problem selling things at less than cost so they can gain loyalty from consumers who only ever want a bargain.
It takes time, talent, effort and care to write a good book. It takes time and effort to edit that book. It takes time and effort to design, proof, print and bind that book. It takes effort to ship it, sell it, for booksellers to read it and know their customers well enough to be able to get it in the hands of people who will enjoy and appreciate it.
If something's valuable to you? Pay what it's worth, if you can afford to. Support all that work. If something's not that valuable to you, fine, buy it for cheap. But don't claim someone's trying to rip you off when they're just trying to maintain a whole ecosystem of cultural production.
OK, rant over.
Skeezix
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Well said, adHominem.
I am having a hard time understanding why spider is so offended. They offered to sell him a book at the listed price in one of their stores, and offered the alternative of selling it to him at a lower price if he was willing to wait for it to be shipped to him. In either scenario, they would not be making a lot of profit (if any) off this sale. Hard to figure out how they have besmirched his honour.
I am having a hard time understanding why spider is so offended. They offered to sell him a book at the listed price in one of their stores, and offered the alternative of selling it to him at a lower price if he was willing to wait for it to be shipped to him. In either scenario, they would not be making a lot of profit (if any) off this sale. Hard to figure out how they have besmirched his honour.
spider
Senior Member
Booksellers don't think you're stupid, they aren't trying to pull one over on you. Notice how the price was printed on the book itself? The publisher sets the price.
So does General Motors but no one pays MSRP for a car.
They sell the book to the shop at a standard discount (generally in the range of 40% off, though it varies from one distributor to the next).
You should mention that unsold books are returnable to the publisher. Is there another retail environment with that deal?
Amazon uses their massive size to bully publishers into giving them steeper discounts, they don't have physical stores to pay for, they pay and treat their warehouse staff incredibly poorly, and they have no problem selling things at less than cost so they can gain loyalty from consumers who only ever want a bargain.
So, Amazon sells inventory below cost in order to entice customers to come back and do it to them again. I doubt it.
It takes time, talent, effort and care to write a good book. It takes time and effort to edit that book. It takes time and effort to design, proof, print and bind that book. It takes effort to ship it, sell it, for booksellers to read it and know their customers well enough to be able to get it in the hands of people who will enjoy and appreciate it.
The same progression of talents and efforts also pertains to the cucumber or music business, it's called the market place.
If something's valuable to you? Pay what it's worth, if you can afford to. Support all that work. If something's not that valuable to you, fine, buy it for cheap. But don't claim someone's trying to rip you off when they're just trying to maintain a whole ecosystem of cultural production.
If a segue to the grocery business is allowed I often shop at Longo's where I like and buy their in-house meals because they are really great and worth the price asked. However I don't buy the Brand name orange juice sold by every grocery store in town because it is priced at $7.50 there and 2 or 3 dollars cheaper every where else.
I am not a cheap skate, as I type this I am looking at a bookshelf that holds thousands of dollars worth of books none of which did I pay the top price asked to acquire. An recent example is an American book that is out of print and offered for sale on the 'net for prices ranging from $150 to $600, I wouldn't pay the top price because the book was not worth that to me but I paid the lowest price (from a very reputable dealer) because it was affordable. The book arrived in a timely fashion and was brand new in the publishers original shrinkwrap.
The purchaser is the final arbiter of what a book is worth.
So does General Motors but no one pays MSRP for a car.
They sell the book to the shop at a standard discount (generally in the range of 40% off, though it varies from one distributor to the next).
You should mention that unsold books are returnable to the publisher. Is there another retail environment with that deal?
Amazon uses their massive size to bully publishers into giving them steeper discounts, they don't have physical stores to pay for, they pay and treat their warehouse staff incredibly poorly, and they have no problem selling things at less than cost so they can gain loyalty from consumers who only ever want a bargain.
So, Amazon sells inventory below cost in order to entice customers to come back and do it to them again. I doubt it.
It takes time, talent, effort and care to write a good book. It takes time and effort to edit that book. It takes time and effort to design, proof, print and bind that book. It takes effort to ship it, sell it, for booksellers to read it and know their customers well enough to be able to get it in the hands of people who will enjoy and appreciate it.
The same progression of talents and efforts also pertains to the cucumber or music business, it's called the market place.
If something's valuable to you? Pay what it's worth, if you can afford to. Support all that work. If something's not that valuable to you, fine, buy it for cheap. But don't claim someone's trying to rip you off when they're just trying to maintain a whole ecosystem of cultural production.
If a segue to the grocery business is allowed I often shop at Longo's where I like and buy their in-house meals because they are really great and worth the price asked. However I don't buy the Brand name orange juice sold by every grocery store in town because it is priced at $7.50 there and 2 or 3 dollars cheaper every where else.
I am not a cheap skate, as I type this I am looking at a bookshelf that holds thousands of dollars worth of books none of which did I pay the top price asked to acquire. An recent example is an American book that is out of print and offered for sale on the 'net for prices ranging from $150 to $600, I wouldn't pay the top price because the book was not worth that to me but I paid the lowest price (from a very reputable dealer) because it was affordable. The book arrived in a timely fashion and was brand new in the publishers original shrinkwrap.
The purchaser is the final arbiter of what a book is worth.