TOareaFan
Superstar
Maybe you could be a bit more specific in your questioning and some here who are in Brampton can maybe share some insight.
Maybe you could be a bit more specific in your questioning and some here who are in Brampton can maybe share some insight.
Mississauga seems to be one of the few municipalities in the GTA that knows exactly what it wants, and unfortunately it's largely stuck waiting in line.
I'd have to say that right now, Mississauga, Ottawa, and York Region are the top 3 municipalities that know exactly what they want, and are moving forward with actually getting it. Toronto obviously tops the list of the exact opposite of that, but Brampton isn't that far behind.
TOareaFan
Superstar
How are you defining "Brampton"....do you mean the people or the politicians?
TFC
Active Member
^Maybe a bit of both, as the people elect the politicians.
TOareaFan
Superstar
But I am not sure what the beef is. There are some politicians, lead by the Mayor, who want the line as proposed by Metrolinx, there are some politicians that seem to be saying if the line is to come to Brampton it should take a route that serves more of a purpose in Brampton. As for the people, I would wager that a very significant percentage of the population don't know/care about this line at all because it will serve them very little (read that as no) purpose or benefit.
Is the suggestion that Brampton, uniquely is not allowed to study and debate these transit lines and should just say "Whatever you want to build ML...that will be fine with us"?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
running an LRT through a valley does not "serve a better purpose", these councillors want it moved because they are caught up in the rob ford "clog up the road" conspiracy.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think the downtown issue has more to do with the loss of street parking. It has been very difficult to attract retailers to those locations....those retailers are telling the city that they will have difficulty surviving without that on street parking.....so (IMO) the city is struggling with the fear that the work and investment that has gone into downtown Brampton will be "wasted" if this line moves through the 4corners area.
That said, whether they are right or not...they have a right to discuss/study it...no?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
well considering council voted not to, it doesn't really matter.
Its also a provincial project meaning that they really don't need to have a say. municipal governments really have no right to say anything, if the province doesn't want them to.
Its also a provincial project meaning that they really don't need to have a say. municipal governments really have no right to say anything, if the province doesn't want them to.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So, why are people hear saying things like "brampton is a mess" just because there is/was discussion of alternatives? (that was the question I posed last night).
As for city's getting a say...I think the precedent has been set on that.... or is an LRT replacing the SRT?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm saying the province doesn't have to give the municipality say, though it is considered good "manners" to do so. The province is free to ignore them if they so please, as they are for many municipalities with the revenue tools.
brampton is a mess because of corruption and the constant switching of priorities for transit. one day it is LRT, then another BRT, then another LRT again, and another LRT in some crappy alignment that doesn't connect with GO. They had the EA recommend the best route, so it is the one they should probably follow. (which they did) the time to discuss alignments was during the EA, not after the report is released.
brampton is a mess because of corruption and the constant switching of priorities for transit. one day it is LRT, then another BRT, then another LRT again, and another LRT in some crappy alignment that doesn't connect with GO. They had the EA recommend the best route, so it is the one they should probably follow. (which they did) the time to discuss alignments was during the EA, not after the report is released.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So you have evidence of this corruption?
I don't actually no of much debate in town about BRT or LRT...they seem pretty committed to Zum and the only other significant ML project in town is the upgrading of the Zum Queen to a full BRT from the mini-BRT that it is now. There were some musings about that being an LRT but I think everyone is pretty settled on the BRT option and the only discussion seems to be about how and where the thing ends in the east end of town.
Dan416
Senior Member
Brampton is a mess because they can't make up their minds. The Hurontario-Main LRT was planned from the get-go as a Mississauga and Brampton project--TOGETHER. You can call it a Metrolinx project if you like, but it has always been a joint project, and Brampton even musing about pulling out proves that it's a mess.
howl
Active Member
As with anything, if there is one obvious answer then there would not be a debate. The fact that there is a debate means there are at least two solutions that deserve further investigation. The Main Street vs. Valley issue is really about the vision for the downtown area. If you bring the LRT into the core then it has the potential to become a real urban centre, with mixed-use high-rise towers and pedestrian-oriented streets. If you move the LRT to a location outside the core the last LRT station will likely become a commuter lot which may actually bring more people onto the system, but the downtown will remain a backwater. The comment about the existing retailers not wanting the LRT speaks to that. If the downtown becomes a real urban centre many of the retailers who are currently there will be forced to move to out due to higher rents, displacement from redevelopment and the loss of their traditional automobile-oriented customer base. Both sides have valid arguments and concerns.
Dan416
Senior Member
My point is that the time for debate on the HMLRT passed a long time ago. Both Brampton and Mississauga already made their decision.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Well, there is no potential for high rise density for Main Street in Brampton on the stretch that the LRT is going to serve....what you see is what you get. Just off Main, or just north of where the LRT is there are a few sites that could/would/should be developed and there are proposals for all of them already (have been for years, long before the LRT was planned/mapped) and what is stopping that development is not a lack of transit....it is the requirements for a $300 million upgrade to the flood channel built after Hurricane Hazel. The TRCA is responsible for this and has shown no willingness/ability to get the job done.....so downtown development and intensification is essentially stalled.
Also, the valley plan (which I don't support BTW) would see the LRT terminate at the old Peel Memorial Hospital site (which is currently under redevelopment as a non-bed quasi hospital) at Queen and Centre......not in the core but not far from it and certainly not an where you could build a large GO-style commuter lot.