Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[drum118]

http://www7.mississauga.ca/Documents/tw/transitway/MississaugaBusRapidTransitProject_FullMap.pdf

Really!!!

What is the operation cost having a bus every 1 minute compare to LRT 3 minute over a 30 year life cycle without taking fuel cost into consideration?? LRT will beat BRT hands down on operation cost alone without fuel cost. If we take an guess what fuel will cost over that 30 year cycle, BRT is wipe off the map by LRT cost saving.

The so call BRT as noted was to cost less than $200m based on 2004 inflation numbers while my number said $325m. So far I am ahead on the cost considering the cost cutting and gutting that has taken place to date to built this thing so far.

People have blind fold on here and continue to see the world revolves around DT Toronto when that is not the case in the first place. That is the way transit was built, but to built the real network to get people to where they really want to go, we have to built new lines and upgraded from buses.

Yes Brampton is looking at the Queen BRT first as it was the cheapest way at the time and had more opportunity for development since industries was to the east in the first place.

Show me a BRT in NA that has obtain the ridership that was first forecast since none have yet to see those number today. Look at how many LRT lines that have beat ridership number in the first year of operation, let alone for 15 or 25 year numbers. There are lines that have past the 25 year number under 5 years to the point platforms are being expanded to add the 2nd to 4th car years ahead of schedule.

You can bitch all you want on all day service, but are you prepared to pay the full cost to do it since the ridership is not there now or 2025 based on the current model GO Transit used today??

Then, where are you going to find the crews to run this service since there is a shortage of crews today, let alone 2015??

May 20 photo of no man zone and 260 new photos here http://www.flickr.com/photos/drum118/sets/72157629953664271/

Tomken Station

Cawthra Station

 

[TOareaFan]

Really!!!

yes, really.

What is the operation cost having a bus every 1 minute compare to LRT 3 minute over a 30 year life cycle without taking fuel cost into consideration??

No idea....but it doesn't matter because I can't forsee a cirucmstance in the next 30 years where the ridership on the Nelson to Busway section warrants, either, LRTs every 3 minutes or buses every 1 minute....so it is a bit of an irrelevancy.

The so call BRT as noted was to cost less than $200m based on 2004 inflation numbers while my number said $325m. So far I am ahead on the cost considering the cost cutting and gutting that has taken place to date to built this thing so far.

Which BRT are we talking about?

You can bitch all you want on all day service, but are you prepared to pay the full cost to do it since the ridership is not there now or 2025 based on the current model GO Transit used today??

Then, where are you going to find the crews to run this service since there is a shortage of crews today, let alone 2015??

Can I ask a question...why do you insist everytime someone expresses an opinion that is different from yours in describing it as "bitching" or "whining" or "crying" (you have used each of those with me and I have patiently ignored it...grow up, not everyone has to agree with you).

As for ridership currently, that might be tied/influenced by service levels. Did current ridership levels of average 350 people in 1900 capacity GO trains every hour off peak on the Lakeshore prevent people from saying "I know, lets double the number of trains!"...no, because they believe that more trains will bring more riders...is that a quality unique to the Lakeshore lines.

Others have said the crew shortage has been solved...and, again, this current crew shortage you speak of did not prevent a doubling of service levels elsewhere so I am not buying it. If we can't find and train crews domestically.....get on board with the feds and start having job fairs in countries that have 20 - 25% unemployment and a long history of train service.

 

[doady]

Seriously, I'd like to know what makes you think that forcing a useless transfer at a toll road will suddenly speed up GO train improvements to Downtown Brampton, or is it just a red herring because you don't want to share Main Street with light rail vehicles? And why are you even opposed to a Shoppers World terminus?

Seriously man, there's no point arguing or discussing anything with this guy. Time is the precious thing in life, there's no point wasting it.

 

[drum118]

yes, really.



No idea....but it doesn't matter because I can't forsee a cirucmstance in the next 30 years where the ridership on the Nelson to Busway section warrants, either, LRTs every 3 minutes or buses every 1 minute....so it is a bit of an irrelevancy.

Which BRT are we talking about?

Can I ask a question...why do you insist everytime someone expresses an opinion that is different from yours in describing it as "bitching" or "whining" or "crying" (you have used each of those with me and I have patiently ignored it...grow up, not everyone has to agree with you).

As for ridership currently, that might be tied/influenced by service levels. Did current ridership levels of average 350 people in 1900 capacity GO trains every hour off peak on the Lakeshore prevent people from saying "I know, lets double the number of trains!"...no, because they believe that more trains will bring more riders...is that a quality unique to the Lakeshore lines.

Others have said the crew shortage has been solved...and, again, this current crew shortage you speak of did not prevent a doubling of service levels elsewhere so I am not buying it. If we can't find and train crews domestically.....get on board with the feds and start having job fairs in countries that have 20 - 25% unemployment and a long history of train service.

While!! you are out to lunch and I will not respond to childless statement that has no facts or material to back up your statements.

If you review my past history posting here, I have never been as bunt with anyone as I have with you. I call a spade a spade and if people can show me there is a better way in looking at something and change my view, I have done so from time to time. I don't have all the answers.

The amount of riders for all day service that you want, you need a 2 car train if that, compare to a 5/6 car on the lakeshore line with EMU's. Since GO doesn't have EMU's yet and only runs 10/12 cars trains, the capital cost is off the scale to run your service.

I and others are not prepare to fund your poor cost ratio service. Its bad enough that I as a non driver have to pay for the $10-$40,000 per parking spot being built that only get used 35% year round on a 7/24 base. Time to pay for that spot that was recommended a few years ago by the MoE after a roundtable event that I was part of. It even call for the removal of spots with more focus on local transit to get people to/from GO stations.

I have since 2000 stood before various councils, TTC and other levels of government calling for better service, funding and so on as well written numerous reports to the various levels. Even had meeting with the Ministry of MTO to a point that some of my report ended up in the quick win program back in 2008. I have even organize transit summits and meetings. Now what have you done other than doing some typing on this board and complain???? I walk the talk.

The BRT was Mississauga.

Get your fact right and do your homework, then we can have a discussion on opinion.

 

[TOareaFan]

The amount of riders for all day service that you want, you need a 2 car train if that, compare to a 5/6 car on the lakeshore line with EMU's. Since GO doesn't have EMU's yet and only runs 10/12 cars trains, the capital cost is off the scale to run your service.

I don't understand.....if a 12 car train holds 1900 people (correct me if I am wrong but I read that recently)...that would be around 160 people per car.....and the average ridership on the off peak trains currently on the Lakeshore is 350 (GO/Metrolinx number from their announcement of the 30 minute service)...would that not mean (on average) that a 2/3 car train can satisfy the ridership on Lakeshore? Have I got those facts/numbers wrong?

I and others are not prepare to fund your poor cost ratio service.

Pending your reply to the above, is that not what other people are doing for the Lakeshore line?

Its bad enough that I as a non driver have to pay for the $10-$40,000 per parking spot being built that only get used 35% year round on a 7/24 base. Time to pay for that spot that was recommended a few years ago by the MoE after a roundtable event that I was part of. It even call for the removal of spots with more focus on local transit to get people to/from GO stations.

Not sure why you are introducing parking to the discussion but, again, no one seemed to quibble about building the parking garages (at a fairly large capital cost) and letting those be used for free on the Lakeshore line?

I have since 2000 stood before various councils, TTC and other levels of government calling for better service, funding and so on as well written numerous reports to the various levels. Even had meeting with the Ministry of MTO to a point that some of my report ended up in the quick win program back in 2008. I have even organize transit summits and meetings. Now what have you done other than doing some typing on this board and complain???? I walk the talk.

I did not know we were in some "action competition" and I commend you for yours. I have been in communcation with coucillors, MPPs, GO Transit, Ministers of Transportation advocating what I think is right for about 25 years and attending any public meetings that I can fit into my life......sorry if that is not enough but as an ordinary joe there is not much else I can do.

The BRT was Mississauga.

So I have to ask, why did you bring in the cost overruns into the discussion we were having. All I was saying was that by the time any LRT is built along Hurontario, this BRT will be up and running (Phase I opens this fall I believe) and that if there is a demonstrable need for a LRT on the south portion of Hurontario that this busway would be logical place for the LRT to end. Not sure what the cost (either budgeted or actual) of that piece of infrastructure has to do with that.

Get your fact right and do your homework, then we can have a discussion on opinion.

As it relates to the LRT what facts have I got wrong?

For the most part when I ask questions about the benefits I either get vague answers or no answers?

So, specifically as it relates to the portion of the LRT from Nelson Street south to, either, the busway (my suggestion) or the 407 (someone's suggestion..but not mine) what are the benefits and what are the needs?

How does this LRT meet the needs of Brampton transit riders when it covers a very small, low density, part of Brampton and is not along one of the higher transit use roads in Brampton?

What is the benefit of this from a network point of view when, as you have clearly pointed out, there is no support for all day service on the KW GO line? What benefit is there to forcing this to the Brampton GO?

What is the cost of the section we are discussing relative to any real or perceived improvements in transit capacity or efficiency?

 

[rbt]

I don't understand.....if a 12 car train holds 1900 people (correct me if I am wrong but I read that recently)...that would be around 160 people per car.....and the average ridership on the off peak trains currently on the Lakeshore is 350 (GO/Metrolinx number from their announcement of the 30 minute service)...would that not mean (on average) that a 2/3 car train can satisfy the ridership on Lakeshore? Have I got those facts/numbers wrong?

Yes, but not every train is equal.

A Sunday afternoon the 2 or 3 trains after a baseball game are jam packed even if the train just before the game ended only had 50 people.

The 7:15 am Saturday train leaving Union Station may only have 5 to 10 people on it but the return 9am trip from Oshawa (same train) can have 700 people; average 350 for those 2 trips.

Weekend ridership is the fastest growing portion of the service, if you shorten the train you will leave people on the platform once in a while.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yes, but not every train is equal.

A Sunday afternoon the 2 or 3 trains after a baseball game are jam packed even if the train just before the game ended only had 50 people.

The 7:15 am Saturday train leaving Union Station may only have 5 to 10 people on it but the return 9am trip from Oshawa (same train) can have 700 people; average 350 for those 2 trips.

Weekend ridership is the fastest growing portion of the service, if you shorten the train you will leave people on the platform once in a while.

Sure, but why would those things be any different on other lines?

 

[rbt]

Sure, but why would those things be any different on other lines?

It's not different than other lines. It's the reason why you can't run 2 to 3 car trains and continue to get high ridership growth in off-peak periods.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's not different than other lines. It's the reason why you can't run 2 to 3 car trains and continue to get high ridership growth in off-peak periods.

So it would be equally impossible to do so on other lines (which is what I was responding to)

 

[rbt]

So it would be equally impossible to do so on other lines (which is what I was responding to)

Correct, at 30 minute frequencies it would not be profitable to GO to risk leaving passengers behind at a station on any line.

If frequencies were higher (5 minute) then it might be worth leaving behind 2% of passengers as their wait would only be very annoying but not infuriating.

TTC bus cuts seem to have caught up with them this year. Ridership growth is down and revenue is flat.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

When this did become about the GO Trains(again..) I thought we were discussing the the Hurontario-Main LRT. Brampton should take this. I think it would create another good transit hub

 

[TOareaFan]

When this did become about the GO Trains(again..) I thought we were discussing the the Hurontario-Main LRT. Brampton should take this. I think it would create another good transit hub

Fair enough....but why?

Why should Brampton "take this" (ie what benefit is there to it) and why should Metrolinx want them to (ie.....why spend the money taking an LRT to Brampton rather than only runninig it through areas that seem to warrant it ......which sounds like MCC south to the PC Go).

 

[doady]

Yes, there is literally no reason to have LRT in either Brampton or Port Credit. Just end the LRT at 407 and QEW.

 

[Dan416]

Fair enough....but why?

Why should Brampton "take this" (ie what benefit is there to it) and why should Metrolinx want them to (ie.....why spend the money taking an LRT to Brampton rather than only runninig it through areas that seem to warrant it ......which sounds like MCC south to the PC Go).

So when's SOM starting up?

 

[TOareaFan]

So when's SOM starting up?

What is SOM