Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[smallspy]

Of course not but should a prof let a student who failed an exam after retests pass the course just because they passed the other courses? Regardless of their past history and success, weve given them unprecedented number of chances and theyve still failed to meet the targets. They need to be punished through exclusion.

You're assuming that the streetcar order is an exam, and thus the final order? Why not the parallel of being one of several projects - one that, yes, they've severely messed up on.

Do they need to be punished? Yeah, and the TTC is already working on that. But to exclude them (permanently? It's not clear in your comments) is going a bit unnecessarily above-and-beyond.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Allandale25]

I'm not sure and wouldn't speculate. I fully agree it will be a serious concern by the decision-makers. Guess we'll have to wait and see. It'll be interesting to see who bids. I know one of the issues is the 25% Canadian content requirement. Given that Ottawa went with Siemens, maybe Siemens would already fulfill this. I don't know.

There is no such thing as 25% Canadian Content as its been replace under the new Trade Agreement as ZERO. Its wide open.

Sorry, I should have referenced the article I was thinking of when I wrote about the 25 percent figure and I should have used it as a quote. I saw this article yesterday where Thunder Bay MPP Bill Mauro was quoted (see below) referencing the 25 percent figure so I assumed given he's a Minister and MPP he would know what he's talking about. Perhaps he's mistaken or he's willfully deciding not to tell the reporter the complete story. Do you have a link, article, source, or material to support your quote of the 25% being "replace [sic] under the new Trade Agreement as ZERO"? When do you believe the policy changed?

In an interview with CKPR Radio MPP Bill Mauro (Lib., Thunder Bay-Atikokan) said the local plant should remain in a good position to move forward if they want the contract.

“I’ve done my best to represent the interests of Bombardier and our plant in Thunder Bay,” Mauro said.

“The way we’ve been able to do that is to ensure there has been a Canadian content requirement in the vehicles that are procured and end up on track, and on rail and subways here in the province of Ontario.”

Mauro said it’s a change in the procurement, there’s not a guaranteed result at the end, but the 25 per cent Canadian content policy is what guides and instructs his efforts and work in this regard.

He added that it’s his responsibility to continue to advance, and it is their expectation to continue to meet the minimum 25 per cent Canadian content requirement.

“We realize in Thunder Bay how important those jobs are to the community, and this has been 12 years of trying to represent their interest and Thunder Bay’s interest when it comes to the expenditure of Ontario taxpayer dollars,”

“We are doing that through our 25 per cent procurement policy, are Canadian content policy and nothing as far as I’m concerned in terms of this different method of procurement has changed that.”

Also, here's another article I found, also from 2016, referencing the above-noted policy. Key quotes:

The TTC and Metrolinx had only required 25-per-cent Canadian content on their vehicle orders. Allowing providers to source parts offshore may have saved the purchasers some cash, but it may also have caused some of the delays.

Finally, this columnist referred to the policy in this piece in 2015 (and appears to not be in favour of it). The columnist mentions the UP Express trains were built in Japan and I haven't been able to find any sources online on how those trainsets were purchased given the policy. Maybe someone here knows and I realize this is veering off-topic.

 

[EnviroTO]

I'm pretty sure the policy is still in place, however with the Nippon Sharyo order for DMUs they piggy-backed on SMART's order to get a deal. Really there was only a single viable FRA compliant heavy rail DMU product being marketed in North America so I'm sure there is flexibility to not require Canadian content for smaller orders where no local product is being offered.

 

[EnviroTO]

They're totally free to submit a bid to supply to whatever company/consortia, but I wouldn't put money on them being successful. I think that, in a consortia situation, other partners would reject Bombardier from tagging on because it would hurt the bid.

I don't think it would hurt the bid. Bids are normally won on price with some evidence of being able to deliver being a qualifier. A consortia including Bombardier won the bid to build the next phase of Edmonton's LRT and it was already known then that delivery in Toronto was off the rails. However, one late contract does not kill a company and Bombardier has a lot of material that says on large contracts they are able to deliver with this LRT order being an outlier rather than the norm.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Except the BBD family isn't budging over giving up control over the company - which the Feds indicated it almost as a precondition to support.

Because the family knows once they lose voting control the company will be broken up, with Transport likely going to Alstrom or Siemens, and Aerospace going to Boeing, etc. and then both being shut down to reduce competition in the market and thus drive up prices.

 

[drum118]

BBD Cutting another 2,000 jobs in Canada with Fed saying HQ must stay in Canada.

Montreal, Quebec -
Bombardier to Scrap 7,500 More Jobs as CEO Deepens Cost Cuts

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Because the family knows once they lose voting control the company will be broken up, with Transport likely going to Alstrom or Siemens, and Aerospace going to Boeing, etc. and then both being shut down to reduce competition in the market and thus drive up prices.

Let's not forget said family wanted to sell C to Boeing - so I don't necessarily think that they would be against quartering the company if it is in their favour.

I wonder how the Quebec government is feeling about their move AFTER sinking 1B into it. I think that would be a fair reason for the Feds not to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

AoD

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

There is no such thing as 25% Canadian Content as its been replace under the new Trade Agreement as ZERO. Its wide open.

In therry sure but as longas the US still has it's buy in Amrica Ploicy why can't we have a buy in Cnada policy.

I don't think it would hurt the bid. Bids are normally won on price with some evidence of being able to deliver being a qualifier. A consortia including Bombardier won the bid to build the next phase of Edmonton's LRT and it was already known then that delivery in Toronto was off the rails. However, one late contract does not kill a company and Bombardier has a lot of material that says on large contracts they are able to deliver with this LRT order being an outlier rather than the norm.

Exactly how many bi level cars have they produced since taking over from UTC and not just for Go Transit but for a few other transit systems too.

 

[drum118]

In therry sure but as longas the US still has it's buy in Amrica Ploicy why can't we have a buy in Cnada policy.


Exactly how many bi level cars have they produced since taking over from UTC and not just for Go Transit but for a few other transit systems too.

Very simple, we have no market and what market is there is too small to support it in the first place. At the same time, we don't have the suppliers to do this, but most all a government who see the big picture global.

Until Made in the USA took hold, Thunder Bay was the place to get bi level cars. Since then, how many cars have been built for the USA?? The last big order was for Metrolink in 2006, where BBD was $135 million higher than the low bidder Rotem. The last few cars went to Florida start up Brightline in 2014. Montreal AMT cancel an order for more cars.

Once BBD finish the order for the new cab cars early 2017 and the order for more bi level for Metrolinx, what will Thunder Bay have to build other than the current TTC streetcar order and refurbishing the bi levels??? With no TTC order due tell mid 2020's, what will Thunder Bay have to build if a world wide tender is issue for the EMU fleet???

All UTC design and built products have fail to sell world wide as plan and why it doesn't exist today.

There is nothing stopping any of the bidders for the Hurontario Line in asking BBD to be part of their team. Are they will to risk the chance BBD not been able to delivery on time and the cost to cover the late delivery???

We don't know what The City Edmonton is thinking about this mess nor the team who has the contract at this time. Time will tell since the start up is 2022 and no idea how many cars are to be order.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wonder how the Quebec government is feeling about their move AFTER sinking 1B into it. I think that would be a fair reason for the Feds not to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Quebec gov't will get its 1B back by sending electricity to Ontario.

 

[Bojaxs]

You guys are aware that Bombardier's rail division HQ is located in Berlin, Germany?

Let the free market run! Bombardier is a failing company, and shouldn't continually be propped up by tax payers, because they make poor bussiness decisions.

Let Bombardier fail, and allow a more efficient, innovative competitor to take over their market share.

 

[Dan416]

Not sure why Canadian are always happy to see their companies go down in the flames. Not that I have anything against American or European companies, but they support their businesses and don't want to see them fail. Only Canada sabotages its own companies. Although to be fair, the Bombardier controlling family is doing a pretty good job of it on their own, and they should get their fair share of the blame.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

You guys are aware that Bombardier's rail division HQ is located in Berlin, Germany?

Let the free market run! Bombardier is a failing company, and shouldn't continually be propped up by tax payers, because they make poor bussiness decisions.

Let Bombardier fail, and allow a more efficient, innovative competitor to take over their market share.

Th thing is ther rail division in europe is doing fairly well if you look at there twitter account they have several projects underway right now. Some of them are even from their Flexcity line. However other then the bilevel productions her in Thunder Bay they are having trouble with the Flexs. A couple of things have come around to bite them in the ass about it one they had a strike which caused the outsourced companies to stop production because they thought it would last longer then it did, two they picked a plant in mexico to build the frames when they had never built the parts before and they ended up not being done well. Now they are building themselves. I still say some of this could have happened to any company with the order for the TTC cars find one city in the world other then Toronto that has order 200 or more new LRT type vehicles.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Not sure why Canadian are always happy to see their companies go down in the flames. Not that I have anything against American or European companies, but they support their businesses and don't want to see them fail. Only Canada sabotages its own companies.

I do hate absolute statements. They make an otherwise well thought out and supported position and look ridiculously conceived.

Canada, Ontario and Toronto have done tons to help Bombardier succeed. Toronto in particular and in the large part Queen's Park have essentially sole-sourced nearly all their rail transit from Bombardier. Every streetcar, every subway, every Go-Train passenger car has been sourced from BBR.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not sure why Canadian are always happy to see their companies go down in the flames. Not that I have anything against American or European companies, but they support their businesses and don't want to see them fail. Only Canada sabotages its own companies. Although to be fair, the Bombardier controlling family is doing a pretty good job of it on their own, and they should get their fair share of the blame.

Bombardier has done a fine job of sabotaging itself.