Markham GTA Centre | ?m | ?s | GTA S. and E. | BBB

Slide 20 is the most interesting:
So we can see there will be 2100 above ground parking spaces just to the east of the site. Now for their total parking count in the area. They include 2100 on site, with 130 below grade for now (under the arena) and 1500 at the GO station.
Strangely they're also including the above ground parking at at honey well and the motoralla buildings which is about 1500. Not sure how that will work out on weekdays, those are private. They also side 510 at the civic center.

The one in Ottawa has 6,500 parking spots above ground on site. Of course the transportation there sucks and is indeed better here but I think transit usage will be low to start. They may run into parking issues ...

There total count is 5,900 if you include the offices and the Markham civic center parking ... which is 3KM away !!! ...


Lastly there is this, developers will need to provide the following (that basically means costs will go up by this amount per unit):

Outside Markham Centre:
Singles and semis $5,000/unit
Townhouses $4,000/unit
Condos/Apartments $2,000/unit

Markham Centre
Condos/Apartments $4,500/unit
Townhouses $6,500/unit


I think its a flat fee per unit, there is no end date and it will be indexed to inflation. Essentially a land transfer tax but it only effects new construction.
 
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taal said:
I'm surprised there are no detailed drawings or renderings or siteplans! Where are those ??
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I think this was just the presentation today. I got them off of Town of Markham's website last night.
I'm sure those detailed siteplans exist, but that would have been too much info for the meeting.
 
Markham VIP said:
I think this was just the presentation today. I got them off of Town of Markham's website last night.
I'm sure those detailed siteplans exist, but that would have been too much info for the meeting.
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Maybe next meeting ?

I'm a little surprised though. The initial plan was to have this touching that giant sport facility on the other side of the track, but I guess they didn't do it like that.

Let me know if you can find any drawings / renderings would be great too !
 
Forget presentations/meetings, from what they are saying on CP24.....they will know sometime today if this will get approved or shot down by Markham council.
This is the real deal:cool:.
 
Automation Gallery said:
Forget presentations/meetings, from what they are saying on CP24.....they will know sometime today if this will get approved or shot down by Markham council.
This is the real deal:cool:.
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No that's wrong ... the meeting doesn't come till next week.

Why is there any doubt ? Clearly this is going ahead, remember there is no public consultation in Markham.

Think about this, 1 meeting with the public, exactly 1 week before the council decides.

On top of all this doesn't forget they're imposing a development fee on every new unit (comes out of buyers pockets effectively).


This is a dictatorship if I've ever seen one ... and I love it ... Toronto should be just like this ! (seriously!)
 
taal said:
Slide 20 is the most interesting:
So we can see there will be 2100 above ground parking spaces just to the east of the site. Now for their total parking count in the area. They include 2100 on site, with 130 below grade for now (under the arena) and 1500 at the GO station.
Strangely they're also including the above ground parking at at honey well and the motoralla buildings which is about 1500. Not sure how that will work out on weekdays, those are private. They also side 510 at the civic center.

The one in Ottawa has 6,500 parking spots above ground on site. Of course the transportation there sucks and is indeed better here but I think transit usage will be low to start. They may run into parking issues ...

There total count is 5,900 if you include the offices and the Markham civic center parking ... which is 3KM away !!! ...


Lastly there is this, developers will need to provide the following (that basically means costs will go up by this amount per unit):

Outside Markham Centre:
Singles and semis $5,000/unit
Townhouses $4,000/unit
Condos/Apartments $2,000/unit

Markham Centre
Condos/Apartments $4,500/unit
Townhouses $6,500/unit


I think its a flat fee per unit, there is no end date and it will be indexed to inflation. Essentially a land transfer tax but it only effects new construction.
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I know....I am not very happy with the parking situation in those documents. Why do they have to have interim above ground parking? If they plan to convert them to structured parking buildings, then why not just build them now? I guess they don't want to commit to the location of the parking structures until they are for sure where to place them and how big they should be.

I am not surprised that they are using the Motorola and Honeywell parking lots. Downtown Markham is about "mixed use", and efficient use of space. If there is a concert or other large event in the evening (i.e after 6pm) or on the weekends, then those parking lots will be empty.

The VIVA Rapidway on Hwy 7 from Yonge to Warden should be completed by the time this arena is built. People can subway to Finch Station, then take YRT or VIVA to Downtown Markham. Once they hit Hwy 7 they'll be there in no time. I agree with you though....transit usage will probably be low in the beginning. People are not use to the idea of taking transit to Markham, it'll take some warming up to.

In regards to the "development contributions", to my understanding, this does not effect units already purchased, so in my case it is not really relevant. This is a cost that the Town is charging to the builder. The builder then will increase the price they sell the unit for to compensate for that cost. Therefore, if demand for residential units in Markham remains constant despite the increase in price, the result should be an increase in the value of existing units because now all new units in the area will cost a little more. For all you new buyers out there...the increase in price is worth it when you're living in the greatest new development in the world :)
 
taal said:
No that's wrong ... the meeting doesn't come till next week.

Why is there any doubt ? Clearly this is going ahead, remember there is no public consultation in Markham.

Think about this, 1 meeting with the public, exactly 1 week before the council decides.

On top of all this doesn't forget they're imposing a development fee on every new unit (comes out of buyers pockets effectively).


This is a dictatorship if I've ever seen one ... and I love it ... Toronto should be just like this ! (seriously!)
Click to expand...

Yes this is a done deal. These meetings are just formalities that they have to do before they can "officially" give it the green light.

This is not a dictatorship....this is a Mayor and a Council doing what is necessary to accomplish to goals of the Town. The development of Markham Centre is in the Town's official plans. They already had over a decade of public consultation back in the 90's and early 2000's about how Markham Centre should be developed. They've already gotten input from various stakeholders.
They have already been given the green light to proceed with Markham Centre....do they really need to consult the public about every little decision within the development?

I don't mind the secrecy of the Mayor or Council because I know what their intensions are....i know that they are acting in the best interest of Downtown Markham / Markham Centre.
 
Markham VIP said:
Yes this is a done deal. These meetings are just formalities that they have to do before they can "officially" give it the green light.

This is not a dictatorship....this is a Mayor and a Council doing what is necessary to accomplish to goals of the Town. The development of Markham Centre is in the Town's official plans. They already had over a decade of public consultation back in the 90's and early 2000's about how Markham Centre should be developed. They've already gotten input from various stakeholders.
They have already been given the green light to proceed with Markham Centre....do they really need to consult the public about every little decision within the development?

I don't mind the secrecy of the Mayor or Council because I know what their intensions are....i know that they are acting in the best interest of Downtown Markham / Markham Centre.
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This is a dictatorship ... if this was done in Toronto, you'd soon see hundreds of articles about the backroom deals and the huge controversy involved. Just stop and think what would happen if Toronto did this ! It'd be all over every paper. Just like the land transfer tax was, this is a little less intrusive but its similar.

BTW, let me make it clear, I don't mind it one bit as well. Markham might as well do it as they can get away with it.

Miller does it, you see hundreds of negative articles (some positive yet) and that's what effects the public. In Markham none of that happens so the public is for the most part in the dark ... which is good in matters like this ...


Yes you're right this is an automatic increase in your property value ;)
No it is not retroactive, and they're phasing it in.
 
Markham VIP said:
the increase in price is worth it when you're living in the greatest new development in the world :)
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... no comment ;)


Honestly in the GTA today the biggest competition as its a similar concept but more more complicated due to politics ... is waterfront Toronto ... if you've been down to Sherborne park / Sugar beach ... they are abosutly amazing, the best thing Toronto has seen in decades ... so lets see if Markham can do something similar.

Architectural wise, unfortunately Markham will probably lose out here due to the fact one developer is doing a large part, there are already seems to be more variety planned. But its good what has been built in Markham, though not very interesting, seems to be high quality.

Expect the townhomes, those are so ugly ... I hate driving by them everyday!
 
I have been busy today so was only able to peruse these docs (thanks for posting).

I guess the only risk that Markham is taking is that the revenue streams from the various sources don't pan out as well as planned and some of the $162 million of debt they are taking on has to be repaid by the taxpayer rather than from the planned sources.

Only the people of Markham can/should deside if that risk is worth it. The people of Glendale probably regret what they did but you what works in one place is different in others and no direct comparisons can be drawn.
 
TOareaFan said:
I have been busy today so was only able to peruse these docs (thanks for posting).

I guess the only risk that Markham is taking is that the revenue streams from the various sources don't pan out as well as planned and some of the $162 million of debt they are taking on has to be repaid by the taxpayer rather than from the planned sources.

Only the people of Markham can/should deside if that risk is worth it. The people of Glendale probably regret what they did but you what works in one place is different in others and no direct comparisons can be drawn.
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Common no comparison whatsoever!

But did the people of Glendale actually get to chose ? I don't think the people of Markham are getting a choice.

I don't think this arena will have any problem making money in the long run. They'll probably also get a team eventually I'd imagine.
 
Maybe this is it:


http://www2.markham.ca/Markham/aspc/lrgfiles/MSECC_Rendering_April%202012.jpg


MSECC_Rendering_April%202012.jpg


From the site plan it should parking all over the east side, so where those building are I imagine.
 
Markham to decide on sports complex Thursday

MARKHAM - The 302,000 residents of this GTA boomtown are to learn next Thursday if their council will approve bankrolling half the cost of a $325 million sports-entertainment complex.

But at the first public meeting to reveal plans for “the commercial facility,” Mayor Frank Scarpitti on Friday predicted taxpayers will not be left in the lurch.

“Markham has been offered ... a very unique opportunity,” he said of the proposal by Graeme Roustan, CEO of GTA Sports and Entertainment, in partnership with Remington Group chairman Rudy Bratty.

When completed, the 20,000-seat, 600,000-square foot Markham Sports, Entertainment and Cultural Centre would be town-owned, Scarpitti said.

He said the $162.5 million in funding Markham must borrow over 20 years is recoverable from levies for developers of new housing, condos and apartments, parking fees, ticket sales and fees the building partners would pay in a yearly lease-back agreement.

Town CAO Andy Taylor said even if costs rise and the Kennedy Rd.-Hwy. 407 complex fails to meet expectations for concerts, sports, art shows, and other public events, households would pay only $160 over five years to cover the loan.

Rouston, head of Bauer Performance Sports Ltd., said: “we’ve got construction financing of $325 million in place.”

Predicting it would have a “significant economic impact” on the community, he said the GTA needs a second large sports arena and vowed to bid for the 2015 World Junior Hockey Championship if the complex opens by late 2014.

Expressing frustration over questions at the meeting, Bratty told reporters the deal is sound — including him giving Markham the six-acre site.

Attracting an NHL team is possible, but Scarpitti said economists predicted sufficient demand for sports venues would keep the new arena busy.

Until council decides on the deal, more information is “not going to be made public,” he said. To avoid competitors stealing the plan for another location, “there are elements of this that are only being disclosed to council.”

A builders’ association objected to additional housing fees, but he said most realize that an arena plus other proposed projects will bring increased housing demands and associated developer profits.
Article and Video..............http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/20/markham-to-decide-on-sports-complex-thursday

CITY OF MARKHAM VOTES TO EVALUATE FUNDING PLAN FOR NEW ARENA
The prospect of a second NHL-style arena in the Toronto area took a step closer to becoming reality on Friday.
A special committee of the City of Markham voted unanimously to bring forward a funding proposal for the new arena to a full council meeting next Thursday night.
More........http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=393769
 
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Watching the video, I couldn't help but think of the Godfather and other such movies, its just the looks of all involved.
 
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