Toronto Gibson Square Condominiums | 137.46m | 42s | Menkes | Rafael + Bigauskas

AlvinofDiaspar said:
By the logic of the OMB, what is there to prevent a progressive erosion of the remaining 3.3 million sq. ft. of office development left? How can it draw the line between acceptable erosion (which is what it is supporting now) and unacceptable ones - especially in light of the argument that because of limited enforcement of policies, that there is now practically no reason to enforce them at all?

Time to ignore the OMB.
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AoD - here's some more detail on the decision:

The site is located within the North York Central Secondary Plan. The secondary plan encourages employment-oriented development in the southern portion of the plan area, with residential sites in the north. According to Michael Goldberg (Goldberg Group), who testified on behalf of Menkes, the site is not located in an employment area or district and therefore restrictions placed on employment area conversions should not apply.

City planners testified against the appeal, stating that housing growth in the city exceeds job growth. Any re-designation of the site, according to city planners, should be minor, in accordance with requirements contained within the secondary plan. The area’s function, according to the planners, would be negatively affected by residential development on this particular site.

The board insisted that while policies may encourage offices in the south section of the secondary plan area, the city has not always enforced these policies in full.

“In addition, the city’s past actions did not reflect an urgency to favour office-commercial growth in the south as expressed at this hearing,” the board decision states. “At the north-west corner of Yonge and Sheppard, the city approved a 20-year lease for a one storey 10,000 sq.ft. of retail development on a site which could have accommodated some 614,000 sq.ft. of commercial-office space…In addition, at the 5000 Yonge Street site, the city allowed over 500,000 sq.ft. of office-commercial space to be converted
to residential usage.”

The board noted that such developments did not compromise the function of the secondary plan area. Market and economics expert Douglas Annand
(urbanMetrics Inc.) testified on behalf of Menkes, estimating that 4.7-million-sq.ft. of office space could be developed in the area if the proposed residential re-designation is approved. Annand noted that the area’s demand for office space between now and 2031 would not exceed 3.7-million-sq.ft.

Lee Parsons (Malone Given Parsons), the city’s market and economics expert, testified that approximately 3.3-million-sq.ft. of office space could be developed if 5170 Yonge Street was occupied by the proposed residential towers. Parsons’ estimate for future office space demand far exceeded that of Annand, projecting that by 2031 demand will reach 6.1-million-sq.ft.
 
“In addition, the city’s past actions did not reflect an urgency to favour office-commercial growth in the south as expressed at this hearing,” the board decision states. “At the north-west corner of Yonge and Sheppard, the city approved a 20-year lease for a one storey 10,000 sq.ft. of retail development on a site which could have accommodated some 614,000 sq.ft. of commercial-office space…In addition, at the 5000 Yonge Street site, the city allowed over 500,000 sq.ft. of office-commercial space to be converted
to residential usage.”
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Except that 1. condo developments are not equivalent to 20 year leases (which is for all intents and purposes permenant in nature); and 2. 5000 Yonge also happens to be the site of Transamerica - and note that the objection in the staff report isn't with regards to having some degree of residential component but having a project that is 100% residential on what is a mixed-use site.

In addition, the board did not provide indicators, from what's being posted, as to how future erosion of commercial land use will be prevented. But of course, that aspect of planning isn't the OMBs job.

AoD
 
5000 Yonge probably refers to the Ultima condo plus Transamerica (were they built on one site that was split into commercial and residential halves?); Ultima is sandwiched between two office towers with prime Yonge frontage, all of them built by Menkes.

The fact that Gibson Square may be built with solely residential uses at street level is absolutely inexcusable and would be a significant aberration from the rest of North York Centre. It really would compromise the streetscape and probably cause a permanent rift between 'uptown' and 'downtown.'

Honetly, I'm not sure where all of this potential office space could go (barring two or three 50+ storey towers...which is astronomically unlikely to happen). There's a lot less land available in the redevelopable zone of North York Centre than it seems, and what scraps are left would, in many cases, require demolishing a block of low-rise pre-condo retail buildings. The older buildings may be short and kinda ugly, but losing them would be mildly disastrous to the area.
 
there is a 2 page ad on pages 26-27, in the latest Condo Guide (Aug 4 - Sep 1), with a smallish rendering....looks like 2 tall towers....

"Coming Soon" & 'Register now', website is menkes.com
 
Full-page ad of Gibson Square on page A2 of today's Ming Pao (only preceded by front page news that China swept the table tennis medals at the Olympics). Here's the rendering...

IMG_1215.jpg


IMG_1217.jpg
 
Ehh, craptangular, just like everything else up here. Where's the pizazz, the chutzpah in condo design in North York?
 
Horrible would be too kind.

Does the road on the north side connect to the ring road or to Park Home, or is it just a connection for the project? Right now there's no road there.
 
does anyone know what is happening to the site just north of that?

i know the mcdonald's there closed down so i'm guessing something is going on. the couple of shops just south of it won't be hard to get rid of.
 
khristopher said:
The roof is kind of neat, but other than that.... *snore*
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I'd say the token addition of such roof elements is an easy way to distract the average buyer away from the rest of this bland-tacular complex; I think their removal would be the first step towards civilizing it.
 
smuncky said:
does anyone know what is happening to the site just north of that?

i know the mcdonald's there closed down so i'm guessing something is going on. the couple of shops just south of it won't be hard to get rid of.
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The whole block, from Park Home to Ellerslie, is being primed for redevelopment (unlike other blocks along Yonge in the area, this one's existing retail structures are pretty much unsalvagable and replacing them will give Yonge a much more cohesive retail strip...assuming the redevelopments have street retail in them, that is).

According to the Gibson Square report, here's what's planned for the area:

In addition to the subject lands, identified as Site 1 below, there are other current and pending development applications within this block. The location of these sites are listed below and shown on “Attachment 7“.

Site 1
5170 Yonge St. (Menkes Gibson Square)
The subject Official Plan Amendment application.

Site 2
5182-5200 Yonge St. (Sam-Sor)
Approvals are in place for a 27-storey residential building and a 17-storey commercial building on the site. In January 2002 an OPA and Rezoning application was submitted to permit a 28-storey residential building on a 3-storey commercial podium containing retail and recreation uses. The applications are currently on hold by the owner.

Site 3
5222-5254 Yonge St.
City staff have held preliminary meetings with the new owner of the properties to construct a mixed-use development on the site.

Site 4
55-65 Ellerslie Ave. (Park Willow Developments)
A Rezoning and Site Plan Control Approval application was submitted in 2004 to permit a third residential building of 18-storeys where the pool and tennis courts are situated. City staff are waiting for additional information from the applicant.
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edit - those addresses are wrong. Site 2, the Sorbara site, includes the McDonald's, the 2 storey office building to the north, and the 4 businesses between McDonald's and the Gibson parking lot, while Site 3 includes everything from the now closed Speedy Muffler site north to Ellerslie. The existing approval for the 17 storey office tower where the McDonald's was is interesting...one need only go as far as a model of North York Centre from the early 90s (at the Civic Centre) to see how many more office towers were planned but never built.
 
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