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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

People are buying houses in the surrounding blocks along Eglinton Avenue and renovating them like crazy. Why? Because of the LRT construction.

Too bad the same can't be said for Finch West. Except for the vicinity of the Spadina extension (and east to Yonge).
 
W. K. Lis said:
People are buying houses in the surrounding blocks along Eglinton Avenue and renovating them like crazy. Why? Because of the LRT construction.

Too bad the same can't be said for Finch West. Except for the vicinity of the Spadina extension (and east to Yonge).
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It is because of the subway, not because of the lrt. Subway always has more impact.
 
kEiThZ said:
I'd like to see $2 for bus if possible. But realistically without the subway network to draw on, bus fares would have to be recalibrated. I could see $3. There will have to be a debate on base fares for the subway (should they even be tied to bus fares at all?) The whole point of fare by distance is so that somebody downtown doesn't end up paying $3 to ride 4 stops. So either we set a very low base fare and a very high mileage rate or a higher base fare and a low mileage rate.
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I could support that. In fact, I did a map a while ago showing how I think a fare system in Toronto should be set up.

Fare Zones.jpg


kEiThZ said:
I'd like to see fares based on real distances. So if from Sheppard West you went to Union, it shouldn't matter if you took GO or took the subway. This is the way to promote transit use. Make it easier for people to travel quickly.
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This would require tap on, tap off, but yes, I agree. Do the fare calculation 'as the crow flies' so to speak, as opposed to the distance travelled on transit. The only problem with this though is what if they use this to do a loop on the system (don't tap off, wait for the next subway or streetcar, ride back again)?
 

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gweed123 said:
I could support that. In fact, I did a map a while ago showing how I think a fare system in Toronto should be set up.

View attachment 7964



This would require tap on, tap off, but yes, I agree. Do the fare calculation 'as the crow flies' so to speak, as opposed to the distance travelled on transit. The only problem with this though is what if they use this to do a loop on the system (don't tap off, wait for the next subway or streetcar, ride back again)?
Click to expand...

In London, the system times you out after a while if you haven't touched out. If you get timed out, your Oyster card is automatically fined £7

The system, however, doesn't calculate distance based fares on buses or trams and leaves those open to a flat fare. Toronto could probably benefit from this. If you wanted to make Toronto's Presto system fully like London's it would be done like this:

Go and the Subway/RT would be integrated and fares would be based on fare zones emanating out from the CBD. Each journey on a rail system would require touching in and touching out. Out of station interchanges such as Main Street Bloor Line-Danforth Go Station would be easily accommodated and would not count as leaving the system.

Streetcars and buses would be charged at a flat rate lower than that of today's fare, (say $1.50) and there would be no transfers. You touch on when you the board the bus/tram and your fare is deducted instantly. This would segregate the two systems and require moving some of the fare barriers in subway stations.

I'm not saying this is an ideal situation, but this is how London's system would work here.
 
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gweed123 said:
This would require tap on, tap off, but yes, I agree. Do the fare calculation 'as the crow flies' so to speak, as opposed to the distance travelled on transit. The only problem with this though is what if they use this to do a loop on the system (don't tap off, wait for the next subway or streetcar, ride back again)?
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm dense today, but why would anybody do a loop on the transit system. At some point, you will have to get off at your destination. And if we change the fare system, there will have to be tap on and tap off at every subway station going to that station's bus terminal.

SgtBullmoose said:
In London, the system times you out after a while if you haven't touched out. If you get timed out, your Oyster card is automatically fined £7

The system, however, doesn't calculate distance based fares on buses or trams and leaves those open to a flat fare. Toronto could probably benefit from this. If you wanted to make Toronto's Presto system fully like London's it would be done like this:

Go and the Subway/RT would be integrated and fares would be based on fare zones emanating out from the CBD. Each journey on a rail system would require touching in and touching out. Out of station interchanges such as Main Street Bloor Line-Danforth Go Station would be easily accommodated and would not count as leaving the system.

Streetcars and buses would be charged at a flat rate lower than that of today's fare, (say $1.50) and there would be no transfers. You touch on when you the board the bus/tram and your fare is deducted instantly. This would segregate the two systems and require moving some of the fare barriers in subway stations.

I'm not saying this is an ideal situation, but this is how London's system would work here.
Click to expand...

London was pretty much exactly what I had in mind. I'd modify the system slightly to accomodate transfers with a time limit. So your bus fare buys you 2 hours. In that time you can tap on to any bus, the system will work out how much time you have left. Or for cash fares, the first bus you get on prints out a transfer. When you transfer to a subway, the system deducts your bus fare and assesses fare by distance. Your time limit still applies and when you tap-off and tap-on to a bus somewhere you'll still have whatever's left of your two hours. Fare by distance and timed transfers. And it's very doable with the presto card. For those who pay cash, they simply take their bus transfer and have them insert it into a machine for a new ticket to buy their distance fare, prior to tapping into the subway...or set it up to allow subway entry with the bus transfer and then have them pay out their fare by distance to get an exit ticket. In both setups, the newly issued ticket will have the time of the original transfer with the time limit.
 
Just got an update last week on construction progress. Looks like soil testing is going on for the next year across the whole corridor.
http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-media/whats-new/soil-testing-for-tunnelling-and-stations

Also learned that major construction around Allen Road and Eglinton is not related to the project. The City apparently has a plan to add a turn lane onto the Allen. This got sent to me: http://www.toronto.ca/improvements/pdf/allen-eglinton_notice.pdf

It would seem a lane is being added for eastbound traffic turning north onto the Allen.
 
gweed123 said:
I could support that. In fact, I did a map a while ago showing how I think a fare system in Toronto should be set up.

View attachment 7964
Click to expand...


The problem I have with fare zones is that they are really difficult to sell politically. It's not just that they end up being more expensive over flat fares for suburban residents (most fare by distance systems are). It's that they are so blatant about it. And they'll also create a whole bunch of complains from residents who live near zone boundaries and want to travel between zones. By doing straight fare by distance and having a fully integrated GO and subway system, you give plenty of people the chance to use rail for shorter distances for less cost. That might be politically sellable. Same for a flat fare on buses and streetcars.
 
kEiThZ said:
The problem I have with fare zones is that they are really difficult to sell politically. It's not just that they end up being more expensive over flat fares for suburban residents (most fare by distance systems are). It's that they are so blatant about it. And they'll also create a whole bunch of complains from residents who live near zone boundaries and want to travel between zones.
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To combat this, you make the zones smaller, and make the base fare a two-zone pass.
 
Yes, you end up with a chorus of people who don't understand the logic, and start complaining that they only need to stay in one zone and deserve a cheaper fare.
 
Dumb question perhaps... any mention of the upgradeability to HRT? is it still not upgradeable as in early bozo-tramsit-city-plans?
 
LAz said:
Dumb question perhaps... any mention of the upgradeability to HRT? is it still not upgradeable as in early bozo-tramsit-city-plans?
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Maximum capacity of Eglinton (per spec) is roughly the same as Sheppard's maximum capacity today (4-car trains at 2 minute intervals).

Changing to a 3rd rail isn't going to do very much. Frankly, you will need 500m deep platforms at Eglington/Yonge transfer point to run anywhere close to capacity on Eglinton because tens of thousands of people will be waiting for a Yonge line train.
 
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