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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Subway trains can't run on the old SRT alignment.

Sure it can, once the SRT is rebuilt for the Eglinton LRT standards. If the Eglinton can be upgraded to a subway at a future date, so can the SRT, since they will be the same system.

Given the lack of Vision by Metrolinx, upgrading the LRT to subway after 2031 will cost twice as much if plans are not in place for it now. Given the fact that the 3 LRTs will take 100m of space of platform with fan rooms at both ends, where do you add the 4 subway car to the standard stations?

Come time to replace the LRTs with Subway, the T1's will be gone and you can move to an articulated train along the lines of the new ones. At the same time, you can move from 30m LRTs to 50m's and only have 2 cars doing the work of 3.

It was interesting to hear Metrolinx on June 30, that there will be buses running on the surface of Eglinton because of the spacing of the stops considering TTC was saying no.
 
Eventually it might be possible to slightly increase the capacity of Eglinton without rebuilding the stations or tracks - just by ordering another kind of rolling stock.

The LRV currently ordered will have 2 cabs in each car or 6 cabs per train; 4 out of 6 cabs will be never used except for carhouse movements. That means quite a bit of redundant floor space, although it should not be a problem when the line opens around 2022.

Once these LRV reach their retirement, or even sooner if they can be transferred to other lines (with lower demand and possibly on-street operation), TTC can order another kind of LRV. Those could be individual single-cab cars (once 3 of them are connected, 2 cabs face outwards), or even 3-car consists with only 2 cabs per train.

I doubt though that it will dramatically increase the capacity; perhaps by 5-10% only.
 
The 18km Millenium SkyTrain line was built in 22 months from word go. That 22 months included station design, community imput, enviornmental reviews, and all construction complete.
 
As I understand it, subway trains can't handle the curve between Midland and Ellesmere.

You are correct, but come 2015, the SRT is to be rebuilt 100% to match Eglinton line. This will take place after the Pan AM games are over.

Upon completion around 2018, the existing ROW will be able to handle subway down the road unless Metrolinx drop the ball to do so.
 
The 18km Millenium SkyTrain line was built in 22 months from word go. That 22 months included station design, community imput, enviornmental reviews, and all construction complete.

Please provide evidence. If the line was announced by Glen Clark in June 1998 and was completed in January 2006 that doesn't seem like 22 months to me. What time are you including and excluding?
 
You are correct, but come 2015, the SRT is to be rebuilt 100% to match Eglinton line. This will take place after the Pan AM games are over.

Upon completion around 2018, the existing ROW will be able to handle subway down the road unless Metrolinx drop the ball to do so.

I am under the impression that no change would be made to the curve since the LRTs are capable of handling the current curve. Due to that reason I don't think upgrading Eglinton to subway will happen.

It's probably better if we build another LRT line if Eglinton becomes too busy, I can see upgrading an LRT to subway to be very expensive as a lot of infrastructure would have to be upgraded.
 
Unless some thing has change, the tunnel and curve section is to be rebuilt to handle the new LRT's as well future needs.

As for the Millenium SkyTrain line, the line was built using precaste columns and track support. Once these sections are on site, erection of them takes very little time installing them as well getting section completed faster. You still need to added the time to make these sections.

22 months is too short to built this line with all that has to take place to do it in the first place.

According to Cement Assocation of Canada, they say 3 years. You need to added the design timeline and the EA timeline to this 3 years and it will be more than the 22 months being claim.
The Vancouver SkyTrain was the first fully-automated light rail system built in Canada. The completion of the Millennium Line in August 2002 extended its elevated guideway system by 16 km.
Superstructure

Trans-Case-Skytrain-2.jpg


The Millennium Line uses a single-cell, precast concrete segmental box girder. The cross section of the segment was designed to be torsionally stiff, allowing the construction of long spans through curved sections of the alignment. Each guideway beam was typically 37 m long, 2.1 m deep, and consisted of twelve 25-ton concrete segments.
About 5,700 concrete segments were cast at a special facility constructed for the Millennium Line. The segments were stored at the facility and moved to their erection sites using flatbed trucks. Each segment was unique to fit the horizontal and vertical geometry of the guideway rails in the section for which it was destined. Each segment took one day to form and cast, using about 9.9 m3 of concrete. The job was a massive undertaking, requiring about 99,392 m3 of concrete. Even so, construction of approximately 16 km of standard elevated guideway was finished in only 16 months.
Trans-Case-Skytrain-3.jpg


Most of the guideway, designed for a 100-year lifespan, was built along existing rail and highway corridors and represents a unique application of truss-erected precast concrete segmental box girder construction, that was unprecedented in the area. Four massive 200-ton overhead erection trusses with lengths in excess of 100 m were used to build the guideway. Standing on the guideway's support columns, these launching girders raised precast guideway segments into place. Crews then threaded steel post-tensioning tendons through the concrete segments to form self-supporting beams wide enough to carry the two SkyTrain tracks.
The inserts for rail fasteners were cast into the segments at the plant, and then the trackwork was laid directly on the structural concrete. After the spans were erected, the elevations were surveyed, the profile grade was adjusted, and shims were introduced beneath fasteners as required. The average shim thickness for the entire project was less than 6 mm. This is the first application of direct fixation rail onto a segmental constructed guideway without the use of plinths.
Substructure

More than 500 cast-in-place concrete columns support the Millennium Line elevated guideway. The support columns are eight-sided and either 1.6 or 2.1 m wide (wider at SkyTrain stations and some other locations). The columns flare out at the top to meet the inward angle of the guideway segments placed above them. About 20 m3 of concrete was required to build an average column. The foundations that hold the columns were typically created using drilled pier technology: steel casings with a diameter of 2 m were vibrated into the ground, the earth was then augured from the center of the casing, a reinforcing steel cage was lowered into the casing, and concrete was placed. In areas where it was appropriate, spread footing foundations were used instead of drilled piers.
Unique Station Designs

Trans-Case-Skytrain-4.jpg


The Millennium Line's 13 stations are key to the success of the expanded rapid transit system. Each station is unique and was designed by British Columbia's prominent architects and structural engineers, with input from an extensive public consultation process. Designed to be futuristic while complementing the communities in which they are located, the stations are built with provisions for public amenities and security features to ensure that commuters of all abilities and ages can use the line safely and efficiently. Stations are constructed primarily with concrete elements up to the platform level. Columns and foundations are constructed with cast-in-place concrete, and the platforms are supported with precast concrete beams. The station ancillary cores utilize architectural concrete blocks.
The first section of the Millennium Line was turned over to the operating authority in December of 2001, with the balance of the line completing operational testing in August of 2002, less than three years after groundbreaking. The project was completed on budget and within the established construction schedule. The Millennium Line is used by approximately 20 million riders annually. The total project cost was $1.1 billion dollars.
Project Team
Engineer
Earth Tech Contractor SAR Transit JV
Concrete Supplier
Lafarge Canada Inc.
Precaster SAR Transit JV
 
If they're going to upgrade then just build it as a subway with perhaps 3 or 4 car trains to start off with the option of expanding stations like Sheppard. If not then do the same for the LRT trains.
 
If they're going to upgrade then just build it as a subway with perhaps 3 or 4 car trains to start off with the option of expanding stations like Sheppard. If not then do the same for the LRT trains.
That leaves you stuck with an under-capacity system for a half-century or so ... and when you get to the point that you might want expand ... then you're forced into making the line have more capacity, rather than doing something more usable like building a parallel route instead ... say on Lawrence or St. Clair.
 
As for the Millenium SkyTrain line, the line was built using precaste columns and track support. Once these sections are on site, erection of them takes very little time installing them as well getting section completed faster. You still need to added the time to make these sections.

22 months is too short to built this line with all that has to take place to do it in the first place.

According to Cement Assocation of Canada, they say 3 years. You need to added the design timeline and the EA timeline to this 3 years and it will be more than the 22 months being claim.

Not the first time ssiguy2 has made a false claim, and definitely not going to be the last.
 
I am under the impression that no change would be made to the curve since the LRTs are capable of handling the current curve. Due to that reason I don't think upgrading Eglinton to subway will happen.

The existing curve between Ellesmere and Midland cannot handle subways, LRTs, or even the next generation of ICTS cars Mk-II. It can handle Mk-I only, and would have to be rebuilt in any case.

I am not sure though that upgrading the curves to LRT guarantees compatibility with subway. LRT might have smaller allowed turning radius.

It's probably better if we build another LRT line if Eglinton becomes too busy, I can see upgrading an LRT to subway to be very expensive as a lot of infrastructure would have to be upgraded.

Maybe, Lawrence LRT; and / or Wilson in the west.
 
... building a parallel route instead ... say on Lawrence or St. Clair.

Lawrence or Wilson might work, as long as it can get funding.

St Clair won't help Eglinton, as the former has very short stop spacing and relatively low speed. OK for a local route, but noone riding a N-S bus will pass the fast Eglinton route in order to board St Clair. If they do pass Eglinton, they will stay on bus till Bloor that is only 2 km past St Clair.
 
Lawrence or Wilson might work, as long as it can get funding.

St Clair won't help Eglinton, as the former has very short stop spacing and relatively low speed. OK for a local route, but noone riding a N-S bus will pass the fast Eglinton route in order to board St Clair. If they do pass Eglinton, they will stay on bus till Bloor that is only 2 km past St Clair.

I would think the better way to alleviate congestion on Eglinton would be to build more perpendicular routes. The more transfer routes it has, the more the traffic will be dispersed at different points, especially if those perpendicular routes run downtown.
 
The existing curve between Ellesmere and Midland cannot handle subways, LRTs, or even the next generation of ICTS cars Mk-II. It can handle Mk-I only, and would have to be rebuilt in any case.

I am not sure though that upgrading the curves to LRT guarantees compatibility with subway. LRT might have smaller allowed turning radius.

The issue is not the actual curve per se, but rather the overhead clearances required for the OCS. The SRT upgrade EA shows the LRVs using the existing alignment and grades, and the construction notes show only that the roof of the tunnel needs to be raised. There may be some minor side clearance issues, but nothing that would require a complete tear-down and rebuild.

As for subways on the SRT alignment, that's a no-go. The elevated sections of the line are not capable of handling the weight of fully-loaded subway cars.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

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