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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Was looking up something entirely different and came across this piece by Global News Edmonton. I'd say that the Crosstown is a carbon copy of the Edmonton's Metro Line with underground segments and on-street level intersection crossings. If we go by Edmonton's experience and admission that they "should've gone under ground or over the three intersections," this doesn't bode too well for the Crosstown I'm afraid.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3259483/lrt-trains-along-metro-line-finally-running-at-full-speed/


The city said Wednesday it was given “the green light” by Rail Safety Consulting to lift the speed restrictions that have been in place at intersections along the track. On Sunday, the trains started running up to 50 km/h through intersections.
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When it opened in September 2015, trains on the Metro Line were running at a reduced speed of 25 kilometres per hour, due to problems with the signalling system. Then, in May 2016, city administration gave the go-ahead for trains to operate at full speed, except at all five intersections it crosses. In June, the trains were allowed to go a little faster at two of those intersections – 35 km/h between 107 Avenue and Kingsway Avenue and 50 km/h between 111 Avenue and the crossing at 106 Street. The LRT expansion and subsequent delays have been called a “boondoggle,” “frustrating” and “disappointing.”
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*welp*
 
I should've stated that part of the reason I have little confidence in the at-grade portion is the renderings of the stations. I know it's been mentioned before but they honestly look like long bus shelters. If they're willing to phone that part of the construction in then I think there's a good chance they'll phone the signal priority part in as well.

What I don't understand is how they can overbuild the York/Vaughan subway extension so much while under building this one. Could they not have found a nice middle ground for both? These at-grade stations are an embarrassment.

I *really* hope they don't fuck this up. There are so many people that think this will be another streetcar route and I want them to be proved wrong but I'm really nervous at this point.
 
Rainforest said:
Well, HSR in Hamilton never operated any rail transit (or, at least not in the last several decades). A new company is about as good as HSR in that case.

But here in Toronto, introducing a new operator would lead to some odd effects, given how tightly various transit routes are integrated.
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TheTigerMaster said:
HSR doesn’t have any modern experience running street railways (or railways of any type). TTC has the largest street railways system, and operates the fourth most used metro system on the continent.
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All this is very true. The main point I was trying to hammer down, is that it would be best for the TTC not to cripple operations on this line in the same way that they do with the various streetcar lines in this city today (through stopping and proceeding at switches, crawling through intersections, poor line management, etc...). If they try and operate this like a streetcar line, it will be vary apparent from the outset.
 
Amare said:
All this is very true. The main point I was trying to hammer down, is that it would be best for the TTC not to cripple operations on this line in the same way that they do with the various streetcar lines in this city today (through stopping and proceeding at switches, crawling through intersections, poor line management, etc...). If they try and operate this like a streetcar line, it will be vary apparent from the outset.
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None of those will happen, and poor line management, considering traffic circumstances doesn't even happen anymore. Short turns are basically non-existent now, and reliability has been increasing (in terms of when a streetcar will arrive, not the CLRVs themselves : P), The stopping at switches won't happen because it's not a single arm switch. Operation of the train should be basically the same as the new streetcars, probably 1000* easier since it's in a ROW.
 
Amare said:
All this is very true. The main point I was trying to hammer down, is that it would be best for the TTC not to cripple operations on this line in the same way that they do with the various streetcar lines in this city today (through stopping and proceeding at switches, crawling through intersections, poor line management, etc...). If they try and operate this like a streetcar line, it will be vary apparent from the outset.
Click to expand...

What makes you think the TTC is crippling streetcar operations? Surely they’d provide faster service through intersections if there was a way to do that safely and within their budget constraints.
 
Amare said:
All this is very true. The main point I was trying to hammer down, is that it would be best for the TTC not to cripple operations on this line in the same way that they do with the various streetcar lines in this city today (through stopping and proceeding at switches, crawling through intersections, poor line management, etc...). If they try and operate this like a streetcar line, it will be vary apparent from the outset.
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Fair enough. Stopping-and-proceeding at switches on the new LRT lines, especially ECLRT, would be rather odd. I hope they don't need to do that.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
Was looking up something entirely different and came across this piece by Global News Edmonton. I'd say that the Crosstown is a carbon copy of the Edmonton's Metro Line with underground segments and on-street level intersection crossings. If we go by Edmonton's experience and admission that they "should've gone under ground or over the three intersections," this doesn't bode too well for the Crosstown I'm afraid.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3259483/lrt-trains-along-metro-line-finally-running-at-full-speed/






*welp*
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I wouldn't say it's a carbon copy - the difference is that Edmonton's Metro Line has complete signal priority over other traffic on its surface section, including crossing arms. The surface section of the Eglinton LRT is more streetcar style and will probably be worse than the Metro Line.

The Minneapolis-St. Paul Green Line is more like a Toronto Transit City style line, operating like a streetcar. It has had plenty of criticism since it opened about how slow it is. Turns out when you market a line as rapid transit, people are confused and angry when they see trains stopping at red lights.

LRT can offer service that's just as good as a subway in certain situations if it's designed right. Sadly, we won't see that on Eglinton except maybe in the tunnel.
 
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Streety McCarface said:
None of those will happen, and poor line management, considering traffic circumstances doesn't even happen anymore. Short turns are basically non-existent now, and reliability has been increasing (in terms of when a streetcar will arrive, not the CLRVs themselves : P), The stopping at switches won't happen because it's not a single arm switch. Operation of the train should be basically the same as the new streetcars, probably 1000* easier since it's in a ROW.
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I'm not sure what services you're looking at, but poor line management/scheduling is still a reality on many routes on a daily basis throughout the city. While short turns have been drastically reduced, they still happen.

TheTigerMaster said:
What makes you think the TTC is crippling streetcar operations? Surely they’d provide faster service through intersections if there was a way to do that safely and within their budget constraints.
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A brief example: when the TTC split 501 Queen operations at Humber Loop. On both branches what would often happen is that once streetcars would reach Humber Loop, there would be a backup of streetcars causing riders to be stuck on a vehicle unable to exit until the vehicle in front departed. This resulted in missed connections with riders getting stranded, and irregular service with the problem getting so bad to the point supervisors were getting stationed at Humber Loop. The problem could have been easily mitigated through proper line management of the entire line, which ultimately was not happening which resulted in bunching at the ends of the line. This problem relates largely to terminal operations which would be negated to an extent with crossovers at terminals, but as we see today the TTC still has issues with terminals on each subway line.

Most streetcar routes today suffer from this exact same problem to varying degrees, the 510 and 511 are the most obvious examples.
 
Reecemartin said:
Well, I just realized LA's Gold Line is getting extended again. (https://la.curbed.com/2017/12/3/16731006/gold-line-extension-construction-metro) Makes me wonder if long LRT's into the suburbs should be chosen over Subways in the future, especially if a row like the one in LA can be utilized.
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If only our LRT lines are built with high platforms. It costs more, but it will also be a better sell, avoid the whole debate of whether it's a streetcar line or not, more suited for our climate, and allows for high floor LRT vehicles with better interior layout.
 
LA's Gold Line started being planned by 1990. The low-floor light rail vehicles also started making their first appearance by the 1990's in Germany. Likely because the low-floor LRV's were so "new" and "foreign", the planners didn't consider it.

Plans for Transit City (Eglinton LRT) was first announced by 2007, at which time the low-floor vehicles were getting better and were looked at as the way-of-the-future.
 
hw621 said:
Nice pix!

I apologize if we had this discussion earlier in the thread, but if the train is in the middle of the road and subject to the same set of traffic signals as the regular traffic, how is it rapid transit?
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Personally, and my opinion is shared by most North American cities building LRT, it makes more sense for the entire roadway to be on one side of the corridor, and the LRT's on the other.

This way, at intersections, you are only having to deal with one side of the road, vs both left hand turns if you are in the middle.

It benefits vehicles as the road adjacent to the LRT can allow vehicles to turn left on a green for the LRT (they turn away from the LRTs) and LRTs also do not have to stop to wait for them to turn left.
 
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