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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

LRT is marketed as rapid transit when it's proposed, but then it always gets subjected to The Cheapening and ends up being a glorified streetcar.

Not evey intersection needs to be grade separated, but not to do any of them is a big miss at making this an actual LRT.

"Rapid transit" has now devolved into a fairly useless term. A mixed traffic bus with wifi can be considered rapid transit. And LRT has gotten pretty useless too, so I can't agree that there's such thing as "actual LRT". Look at the Line 3 upgrade plan. Was 100% separate from traffic, using 100m trains, automated, local-ish station spacing, very high capacity, low fares, ~2-5min frequency day and night. That's a subway. Split hairs and call it a light metro, but whatevs still a subway by most metrics. Nowhere did I hear those terms in any debate or report. No light metro, no intermediate capacity system, no subway, no light subway, etc. Very little underscoring of its traits. Just "LRT".

But then we have Harbourfront LRT, Spadina LRT, new Watefront LRT. And I guess St Clair too. All in the roadway stopping at traffic lights every 50m, all great upgrades, but all 'actual LRT'. That famous Matlow debate where he supposedly schooled Ford, IMO he just added confusion to an already confusing concept. If a line running with a slow order next to a sidewalk is an LRT, and Line 3 upgrade is LRT, then there's clearly no such thing as "actual LRT". It's such a broad and vague term.

This is the main reason I'm supportive of continuing with the current plans for Eglinton West. We already firmly chose 10yrs ago that the line must have an "LRT" monicker no questions asked, and skipped any opportunity to re-analyze when we had the chance (even if it could've saved us subsequent issues namely SSE). We made our bed. May as well just continue with it.
 
LRT is marketed as rapid transit when it's proposed, but then it always gets subjected to The Cheapening and ends up being a glorified streetcar.

Not evey intersection needs to be grade separated, but not to do any of them is a big miss at making this an actual LRT.

The LRT will be as fast or faster than our subway network. If that’s not fast enough for you, then I don’t know what is.
 
The bulk of criticism directed towards LRT comes from drivers concerned about losing traffic lanes (war on cars), which target intersection grade separations doesn't do much to address. Something tells me that the Rob Fords of the world will continue to whine about LRT, with or without the targeted separations.

Dismissing the people's concerns with the road median streetcar model as just a bunch of divers making noise or the 'Rob Fords of the world' is a huge part of problem.

The LRT will be as fast or faster than our subway network.

Even the Crosstown website (which is a is an advertising tool) claiming the opposite... So much stubbornness from both sides in the LRT-Subway conflict.
 
The LRT will be as fast or faster than our subway network. If that’s not fast enough for you, then I don’t know what is.

Our subway network is slow as balls currently.

Maybe will be better with ATC, but right now, our subways crawling speeds are not something I would wish upon a new transit system.
 
Our subway network is slow as balls currently.

Maybe will be better with ATC, but right now, our subways crawling speeds are not something I would wish upon a new transit system.

Our metro system operates at 30 km/h, which is fairly standard for metro systems globally. For reference, the London Underground operates at roughly the same speed.

ATC won’t make it any faster.
 
Even the Crosstown website (which is a is an advertising tool) claiming the opposite... So much stubbornness from both sides in the LRT-Subway conflict.

That website is almost certainly talking about the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, and not the Eglinton West LRT. These are two separate projects. The Eglinton West LRT travels between Pearson Airport and Mt Dennis, while the Eglinton Crosstown LRT travels between Mt Dennis and Kennedy.
 
The surface LRT will have an average speed of 27km/h IIRC. The Bloor Danforth line is around 30km/h through it's central portion where there are a ton of stations.. but the latest subway extensions average closer to 40km/h with the further stop spacing.
 
Torontonians Strongly Support Eglinton West LRT

Across Toronto:
At-grade LRT: 60% support, 13% oppose
Subway: 49% support, 23% oppose
Targeted separations: 59% support, 14% oppose

In Etobicoke-York:
At-grade LRT: 67% support, 8% oppose
Subway: 48% support, 22% oppose
Targeted separations: 59% support, 12% oppose
 
The surface LRT will have an average speed of 27km/h IIRC. The Bloor Danforth line is around 30km/h through it's central portion where there are a ton of stations.. but the latest subway extensions average closer to 40km/h with the further stop spacing.

Line 2 Bloor Danforth has a planned service speed of approximately 30.5 to 32 km/h

Line 1 has a planned service speed of about 28 to 31 km/h

Eglinton West LRT has a planned service speed of 28 to 31 km/h

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/service_summary_2015_01_04.pdf


http://thecrosstown.ca/sites/defaul...l-design-options-sections-2.1-through-2-6.pdf
 
Torontonians Strongly Support Eglinton West LRT

Across Toronto:
At-grade LRT: 60% support, 13% oppose
Subway: 49% support, 23% oppose
Targeted separations: 59% support, 14% oppose

In Etobicoke-York:
At-grade LRT: 67% support, 8% oppose
Subway: 48% support, 22% oppose
Targeted separations: 59% support, 12% oppose

More than anything, I’m stunned by the low opposition to the project. Certain Etobicoke councillors seem to have greatly overestimated how much their constituents would oppose this project.

I feel like a decade ago, there would’ve been a lot more opposition.
 
More than anything, I’m stunned by the low opposition to the project. Certain Etobicoke councillors seem to have greatly overestimated how much their constituents would oppose this project.

I feel like a decade ago, there would’ve been a lot more opposition.

The results felt like dog's breakfast - I am not sure if they are indicative of anything other than a general "more transit, good, but that's because I don't know the price tag of the different options on the offer".

AoD
 
The latest subway extension averages 43km/h, presuming a 12 minute travel time, which I believe is what they have stated it will be for Sheppard West to VMC.
 

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