Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[crs1026]

These are for illustrative purposes. This isn’t supposed to be indicative of shelter design.

Yeah, I wouldn't take this design to the casino on the basis of a rendering.... but silence can become acquiescence. Funny how things that start out as unplanned details stick around as the design firms up.
I would rather squawk early and sound grumpy than let that "concept" stick around. ;-)

- Paul

 

[Towered]

That 4 storey high station at Islington is hilarious.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

At $280 million/km, we already are getting a light rail line at the cost of a subway on Eglinton. LRT was an odd technology choice for this corridor; it made sense in the Transit City concept of LRT everywhere, where you could share carehouses, equipment, interline, etc. But by itself, with an airport at one end and the SRT at the other and no connecting lines, it would have made more sense as automated ICTS. It would have prevented the $3.5-billion 1-stop SSE from happening, Eglinton west could have been elevated (there is lots of ROW and most of the development there has its back to the road, as a legacy of the Richview expressway) and the 10 km central tunnel would have been cheaper to build because of the smaller cross-section.

I just want to point out in the EA that even the speediest option, which skips Islington, Jane, and every major cross-road, includes stops here at Silver dart, hedged in by the airport and two highways:
View attachment 124315

And another one here on Convair, also hedged in by highways and the airport:

View attachment 124316

So I am seriously questioning the judgement and the options decided by an EA which ignores its own business case and then produces this as the approved option:

View attachment 124317

Will this stretch of the LRT be all stop like the central portion (and subway)? Or will it be request stop. If it is request stop than really a couple of extra stops is irrelevant since the LRT will only stop there if there are passengers to board/de-board...

 

[crs1026]

I feel like I'm the only one who wants to see this built and the extra money be spent towards the drl. I was expecting hostility from Hoskins, burloak but am surprised how many others wanted grade separation. This is not a perfect plan, the excuses maybe bs but that doesn't change the fact this is a financially prudent plan which still makes eglinton faster,more dependable, more comfortable than the current bus. Are we really going to fight this so much that nothing gets built here?

Yes, we should fight this. And not "just because". There is a fact based issue here, even if the pols may be using that as an excuse to do some self-serving grandstanding.

The question is, a) what do the traffic studies say about impact of center median at grade design on left turns at intersections, and the related auto congestion, and b) what is the impact of the proposed left turn strategy on LRT velocity.

The original EA had negative findings in its traffic studies, which were swept under the carpet. The direction to revisit the design was all about getting better data than the EA and allowing it to find the light of day.

I do not support end-to-end underground construction - that is clearly wasteful. But I believe we need to address the intersection traffic issues. Otherwise we end up with an LRT that is mediocre and that does not improve public perception of LRT in this city. If that is allowed to stand, then yes, let's not build LRT here. BRT may work, and it would only be "pretend" LRT anyways.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Was anyone at the meeting last night?

 

[sixrings]

Martin Grove is a nightmare so this is the one place I'd prefer grade separation. Perhaps Jane as well for other reasons. How does this lrt affect Traffic any worse than finch or eglinton east? All I am saying is that one could find a reason to grade seperate every line if they want to. Some people here were more or less pro transit city. I think years of hearing subways subways subways has had an effect on even once lrt supporters.

 

[Amare]

Looks like someone beat me to the punch in posting those materials confirming my earlier statement.

This whole proposal (as it currently stands) is just ridiculous. If the city is really inclined on delivering some half-baked LRT on Eglinton, they should have just let the province build the whole thing. It's not like I have much faith in Metrolinx as we most likely would see the same amount of same delays and stalling, but i'm sure we would have seen a few grade-separations.

Had the traffic warden (John Tory) not foolishly put his hand up and offer to put the city on the hook for capital costs for no reason whatsoever, we wouldn't be talking about how problematic the extension could be.

 

[Hopkins123]

The planners were clearly given instructions to find ways to cut costs. So much for public consultations. Since when is grade separating not preferred? it's a joke

John Tory is a fraud. Throw him out!

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I thought this was a bit interesting - the highway improvements between Eglinton and 27.

1. Why is a ramp needed for 401 EBL to 27 SBL. There are already ramps from 401 EBL (and 427 SBL) to 427 SBL. The only (partial) exit that is not accessible is Eringate Drive. I don't see a need for this.
2. The loop ramp for 401 EBL to 27 NBL may be useful.
3. The Eglinton EB to 401 WB turn lane also does not seem that needed since Renforth and be used for 401 WB. Maybe its for 27 NB?
4. Its strange that Eglinton Ave. West is shown as 1 way EB. The last time I looked, it was WB as well.
5. 

I think the EB401 to SB27 is due to the fact that the 427SB is only accessible from the collector lanes. Adding this ramp would give an option from the 401 Express to the 427SB (which is where the 27SB winds up)

 

[ndawgg]

What's with the Scarlett Road rendering? Notice how if we go with the "NOT PREFERRED" grade separation, then a giant concrete building appears in the top left? Whereas, if we keep it on the ground, the block will stay as a nice park? I noticed a few others things like that, but that was the most obvious. Perhaps a little subliminal advertising to visually turn us off of the not preferred options?

 

[OneCity]

Most of these same issues with Eglinton West apply to the current Crosstown LRT line East of Don mills to Kennedy. Very unfortunate that grade separation was given such a low priority in both instances. I share the same concerns as most here in its all around value, but will be a welcome addition for all part of Eglinton none the less.

 

[jcam]

The Eg. EBL to 401 WBL, and access to 27 NBL, is likely the most feasible.

Couldn't you achieve this by slotting an extra lane going the opposite direction to the 27 NBL to Eg. EBL ramp (under the 27 NBL to Eg. WBL ramp) and then marrying it to the proposed 401 EBL to 27 NBL loop?

 

[jcam]

I feel like I'm the only one who wants to see this built and the extra money be spent towards the drl. I was expecting hostility from Hoskins, burloak but am surprised how many others wanted grade separation. This is not a perfect plan, the excuses maybe bs but that doesn't change the fact this is a financially prudent plan which still makes eglinton faster,more dependable, more comfortable than the current bus. Are we really going to fight this so much that nothing gets built here?

Same surprise here. I grew up in the area....really, grade separation is needed at Royal York or Scarlett? Above ground grade seperation makes some more sense at Jane or Islington because the road dips at those intersections (or at least at Jane it'll be coming out of the hillside).

 

[Cobra]

Elevated transit from the city perspective:

PS: Those shelters are a joke

 

[aquateam]

Will this stretch of the LRT be all stop like the central portion (and subway)? Or will it be request stop. If it is request stop than really a couple of extra stops is irrelevant since the LRT will only stop there if there are passengers to board/de-board...

Request stop sounds good in theory if you are travelling late at night... but in practice, in order to account for the unreliability that this introduces and in order to manage headway, schedules will need to be padded in order to account for the extra stops. Otherwise you would get bunching. This is like the request stops on Spadina at Sussex and Wilcox: lightly used but used enough to disrupt the journeys of most of the people on the streetcar.

Regarding the Martin Grove/Eglinton intersection, they said there was a major problem with a below grade station. The Enbridge pipeline is right underneath (substation at SW corner). It would cost a lot to relocate that. If they did a below grade configuration, they'll have side platforms meaning some people will still have to cross the roadway. A two level (concourse + platform) is too steep for the LRT to return to the surface to dodge Mimico Creek and be level at Widdicombe Blvd. So it's back to the 2010 EA configuration with the low usage stop removed. This time they are doing a LRT first approach, finalize the preferred concept and will determine traffic movements later on.

The key unnecessary requirement there seems to be that the Widdicomb stop is needed in the first place.

It's interesting reading the "history" of that intersection:

- 2016 - The Martin Grove intersection was identified as one of the top 10 congestion hotspots in the City – implementation of several interventions (e.g., optimized signal timing) to try to address traffic issues.

And yet they are electing not to go with any grade separation there.

What's with the Scarlett Road rendering? Notice how if we go with the "NOT PREFERRED" grade separation, then a giant concrete building appears in the top left? Whereas, if we keep it on the ground, the block will stay as a nice park? I noticed a few others things like that, but that was the most obvious. Perhaps a little subliminal advertising to visually turn us off of the not preferred options?

I think that's definitely the case, picking the most ridiculous looking and obtrusive structure possible if we go against what the planners want. The stations remind me of concrete versions of the War of the Worlds monsters looming over the intersection.

TBH it would be better if more buildings would appear: above ground stations could be integrated with new development, which could help pay for the costs of the stations.

So lets get this straight. Because planners decided to 'not prefer' grade seperation at intersections, we are going to cave to political will and have a fully tunneled LRT line in Etobicoke.

I fully expect that Doug Ford is going to demand "Respect for Etobicoke" and as a result the entire Eglinton West section will be tunneled.

Well if we fight here then I will no longer think it is just scarborough that is entitled and I will fully expect finch to protest their design. Tunnels for everyone.

I maintain that the drl, which I will never use in contrast to eglinton which I will use, is the only line which needs tunneling

I think that most of us are looking for a side-of-the-road/elevated configuration for Eglinton West, not tunnelling, but maybe I am just projecting my own opinion.