Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Hopkins123]

In summary...

People say just build something already.
Government shows what they plan to build.
People complain.
Government uses oppertunity to create a divide.
Things get delayed or cancelled.
People say just build something already...

No... don't build something just for the sake of building something to curry favor come election time. Thought and willingness to invest money needs to be put into this. Transit needs go far beyond a 4-year electoral cycle.

Build something not just for today's needs but for future needs as well. Screwing up transit in the Eglinton corridor forever is inexcusable, when if built as grade-separated the Crosstown could and would majorly compete with the Bloor-Danforth as an alternative for getting around the city/region. Cutting costs on what's the single most critical piece of new transit infrastructure built in a generation is categorically wrong.

 

[sixrings]

It's the same plan that existed since transit city. People didn't love it then but they accepted it. The problem isn't the plan it's that we heard subway subways subways and or smart track for the last 7 years that even those with realistic transit ideas have bought into the grade seperate or nothing mind set. When one city is the voice of Reason there is a problem.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Some of the Cons against the grade separation in this list are ridiculous. Like that it will cause construction. Yeah... thats what building stuff properly does!

Meanwhile, Montreal is pitching this station

We've got a bunch of floozies in city hall who are still David Miller Transit City obsessed and care more about cost cutting and street beautification than proper transit.

In that MTL station, must all passengers take the elevator? If so, that sounds really bad for passenger throughput.

 

[Hopkins123]

It's the same plan that existed since transit city. People didn't love it then but they accepted it. The problem isn't the plan it's that we heard subway subways subways and or smart track for the last 7 years that even those with realistic transit ideas have bought into the grade seperate or nothing mind set. When one city is the voice of Reason there is a problem.

Sounds like the problem was David Miller. Before and after his terms in office the plan was always to build a grade separated busway or light rail or even a standard subway line along Eglinton through the Richview lands.

Geez, look how much his 7 years in office has screwed up everybody's mindset against grade-separation.

 

[robmausser]

In that MTL station, must all passengers take the elevator? If so, that sounds really bad for passenger throughput.

Its a bunch of huge high speed elevators with large volume throughput.

Its an engineering solution to a problem, something we are unfamiliar with here in Toronto.

Toronto = "we paid a consultant firm with very specific outlines of what we wanted the results of the report to come up with, and not allow for any innovative ideas, because we favor a specific outcome over coming up with solution"

That end result is usually a half assed approach (ie no grade separations here, or a pedestrian walkway for the Waterfront LRT) or to abandon the project entirely.

The results are usually based upon "beautification" ideologies, for example with the ones I listed, "oooo at grade LRTs are so pretty" or "a walkway is so chic and European"

Just look at how the renderings for this favour the look and feel of the at grade LRT option, or how they played up the walkway for the Waterfront LRT as some kind of art installation thingy

(this image was used in the first proposal)

Meanwhile Mississauga gets a fully grade separated transitway, and York region a tunnelled subway with behemoth stations.

 

[sixrings]

Sounds like the problem was David Miller. Before and after his terms in office the plan was always to build a grade separated busway or light rail or even a standard subway line along Eglinton through the Richview lands.

Geez, look how much his 7 years in office has screwed up everybody's mindset against grade-separation.

Yes David miller was our transit problem. We've gone seven years or so with ford and tory. See how it's a utopia now? Urbantoronto.ca has become bizarro world

 

[Sandpit]

I'm not suggesting to cut Hakimi Lebovic altogether. I'm saying instead of having two stops within 500 metres of each other largely serving the same catchment of riders, why not situate a bona fide station east of Pharmacy and west of Lebovic in the midblock trenched or elevated, like this?...

And as for Aga Khan, it will still be quite a walking distance uphill from where the LRT stop is going to be situated. How is direct bus service along Wynford Dr not a better way to serve the regulars that'll actually need such a stop? Remember too that Science Centre Station's station box will be on the east side of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection. To have another station so closeby is ridiculous when we have far bigger fish to fry.

I personally support this. I also support elevating Sunnybrook Park station (eliminating the need to turn around at Laird while also giving spectacular views of the Don Valley). Unfortunately that's not what's being built.

 

[sixrings]

I don't think you can have an elevated stop at Leslie with a cp rail bridge directly to the east.

 

[sixrings]

Personally I prefer all of the not preferred options. Pretty sure like myself the planners don't prefer the price difference. That's the only answer that makes any sense based on those renderings.

 

[WislaHD]

Personally I prefer all of the not preferred options. Pretty sure like myself the planners don't prefer the price difference. That's the only answer that makes any sense based on those renderings.

Instead, we are going to get tunneled.

 

[Ozman]

Does anyone know if the livery for the Crosstown (Bombardier Flexity Freedom) vehicles will be the grey, black and white that we've seen on the first (prototype?) Metrolinx vehicle. That grey and the grey seats inside is so drab. With all the disruption and time and money spent on this project it should project a sense of excitement and brightness. The new streetcars (bright red), the Ottawa LRT livery and the Waterloo bright blue and white livery are colourful and bright. Even the TRs have the red seats inside. When the Yonge subway was opened it featured the bright Red Rocket Gloucester cars and I believe it made it inviting, exciting and attractive. When Eglinton opens, if the livery is this plain grey it will fall completely flat. Combined with the bare concrete platform walls it will look incredibly unfinished. It will look like the line has prototypes instead of finished trains. As if the other lines' trains are painted and Eglinton's trains just have a coat of primer.

I hope my fears are unfounded but if not I think they have blown an easy chance to create excitement about the line. I believe some colours (TTC red or a nice shade of blue) would be better than others (orange or old Metrolinx green) but almost anything would be better than the grey. It's like all the other trains are in Kodachrome colour but Eglinton is in black and white.

 

[Hopkins123]

Personally I prefer all of the not preferred options. Pretty sure like myself the planners don't prefer the price difference. That's the only answer that makes any sense based on those renderings.

Then why are you complaining and being in disagreement for? As is the case with SSE, for marginal higher costs we can build these lines correctly in the first place and never have to worry about them again. What are future generations going to do if in 50 years time they'll need to shutdown an operating Crosstown to upgrade the Richview section to grade separation, at significantly higher expenditures than today's? A billion dollars added expense to us will be $3 billion or more down the road for them.

So yeah, excuse me if I am a bit combative about Miller's legacy. Because all he's made us inherent are scattered priorities all searching for funding from the same revenue stream.

 

[innsertnamehere]

There are photos of the first production LRV for Eglinton in testing in Kingston and it is grey.

 

[sixrings]

I'm complaining because I believe complaining about this plan is not going to lead to tunneling but cancelling or at the very least delaying any transit west of mount dennis

 

[OneCity]

Its a bunch of huge high speed elevators with large volume throughput.

Its an engineering solution to a problem, something we are unfamiliar with here in Toronto.

Toronto = "we paid a consultant firm with very specific outlines of what we wanted the results of the report to come up with, and not allow for any innovative ideas, because we favor a specific outcome over coming up with solution"

That end result is usually a half assed approach (ie no grade separations here, or a pedestrian walkway for the Waterfront LRT) or to abandon the project entirely.

The results are usually based upon "beautification" ideologies, for example with the ones I listed, "oooo at grade LRTs are so pretty" or "a walkway is so chic and European"

Just look at how the renderings for this favour the look and feel of the at grade LRT option, or how they played up the walkway for the Waterfront LRT as some kind of art installation thingy

(this image was used in the first proposal)

Meanwhile Mississauga gets a fully grade separated transitway, and York region a tunnelled subway with behemoth stations.

Toronto has become increasingly short sighted. All these transit projects are generational projects where the cost to enhance today will seem like a bargain in 50 years. Do it right the first time.