Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[howl]

doesn't seem right.. is that for the surface portion? because if its for the underground portion than the surface will be seeing 12 minute frequency, which is starting to get a bit high. (though mind you the Spadina extension will see 9 minute frequency as well)

I'm pretty sure anyone saying the frequency is going to be any defined number at this point is talking out of their ass. The frequency will be what the frequency needs to be so more people efficiently in 2020. Until 2020 no one knows exactly what that will be. Even after they open the line they will probably spend a few months adjusting the schedule to optimize system and its interaction with all the adjoining routes.

 

[Palma]

doesn't seem right.. is that for the surface portion? because if its for the underground portion than the surface will be seeing 12 minute frequency, which is starting to get a bit high. (though mind you the Spadina extension will see 9 minute frequency as well)

How can they run say 6 min underground (which seems too long) and then 12 min above ground? I am assuming trains will turn around at the last underground stop in both direction (weston in the west and Laird in the east) for this too happen.

The other question is (not sure if I already asked this) but will the underground portion open before the above ground), or by the time they build all the stations, I suppose the above ground portion will be finished at time too

 

[innsertnamehere]

only 1/2 of trains will go past Laird. Therefor, the frequency on the portion of the LRT east of Laird will be at 1/2 the frequency west of it.


As for Spadina, that is peak. Only 1 out of every 4 trains departing from Union will make it to Vaughan. At 135 second frequencies on the busiest portion of the line, that means every 9 minutes for the extension. It will start to drop significantly once the new ATC is implemented as every second taken off of the frequency on yonge is 4 seconds taken off of the frequency of Spadina, but still. Even at 105 seconds the frequency will be 7 minutes.

Thinking about it further that may be a correct frequency given the projected initial ridership. if opening day will see 5,600 PPHD but the line is capable of 20,000 PPHD, I would think that frequency would be roughly 1/4 of the maximum frequency. (90 seconds) Personally I think this line will blow projections out of the water and be a huge success (same with Spadina, especially if VIVA ups its bus frequencies like they are planning), but if they are planning on initial projections 6 minutes makes sense.

 

[edmundoconnor]

If the line is a huge success, no time should be wasted in planning phase 2 to Pearson. Hopefully the province will have finally recognized by then that getting to the airport is important not just for the high-flyers on the UPX.

 

[BurlOak]

only 1/2 of trains will go past Laird. Therefor, the frequency on the portion of the LRT east of Laird will be at 1/2 the frequency west of it.


As for Spadina, that is peak. Only 1 out of every 4 trains departing from Union will make it to Vaughan. At 135 second frequencies on the busiest portion of the line, that means every 9 minutes for the extension. It will start to drop significantly once the new ATC is implemented as every second taken off of the frequency on yonge is 4 seconds taken off of the frequency of Spadina, but still. Even at 105 seconds the frequency will be 7 minutes.

Thinking about it further that may be a correct frequency given the projected initial ridership. if opening day will see 5,600 PPHD but the line is capable of 20,000 PPHD, I would think that frequency would be roughly 1/4 of the maximum frequency. (90 seconds) Personally I think this line will blow projections out of the water and be a huge success (same with Spadina, especially if VIVA ups its bus frequencies like they are planning), but if they are planning on initial projections 6 minutes makes sense.

Only 1 in 4 train making it to Union - that is insane. Who in their right mind would build a fully underground subway extension when it only gets 1/4 of the service. I can maybe accept 1/2 the trains making it to Vaughan in peak and every train in off-peak.

Similarly for Eglinton - I would think it would make the most sense to have only 1/2 the trains run beyond (east of) Brentcliffe at the peak, but that all trains would in the off-peak.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I don't think it will last too long. I feel the second short turn will be moved up to Steeles west fairly soon after opening (probably for when the Finch LRT opens), but I can't see every other train making it to Vaughan any time soon. Maybe in a couple decades. The first short turn is moving up to Glencairn from St. Clair west in 2015 already, I can't see anything other than continual creep up the line over the next few years as the TTC continues to experience 3% annual growth.

 

[ehlow]

howl makes a good point though. Isn't it too early to know what service levels will be on Eglinton?

 

[smallspy]

only 1/2 of trains will go past Laird. Therefor, the frequency on the portion of the LRT east of Laird will be at 1/2 the frequency west of it.

That is going to be true for rush hours. For off-peak, it looks like the frequencies will be low enough that trains will travel the whole distance of the line.

As for Spadina, that is peak. Only 1 out of every 4 trains departing from Union will make it to Vaughan. At 135 second frequencies on the busiest portion of the line, that means every 9 minutes for the extension. It will start to drop significantly once the new ATC is implemented as every second taken off of the frequency on yonge is 4 seconds taken off of the frequency of Spadina, but still. Even at 105 seconds the frequency will be 7 minutes.

That is patently false. In the morning rush hour, each second train will turn back at Glencairn (and eventually Wilson). In the afternoon, they are still split on whether every second train will be turned back at Finch West or go all the way to Vaughan.

At all other times all trains will travel the whole length of the line, the same as today.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Uncle Teddy]

Probably too early considering the route won't be ready for a few more years.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That is going to be true for rush hours. For off-peak, it looks like the frequencies will be low enough that trains will travel the whole distance of the line.



That is patently false. In the morning rush hour, each second train will turn back at Glencairn (and eventually Wilson). In the afternoon, they are still split on whether every second train will be turned back at Finch West or go all the way to Vaughan.

At all other times all trains will travel the whole length of the line, the same as today.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I'm sorry, my understanding was that they would be instituting another short turn at Downsview? (soon to be Sheppard West)

what do you mean by finch west turnback in the afternoon? as in all trains will run to finch west in the afternoon but in the morning they will only run to Glencairn? Or 1/2 will turn back at Glencairn and another 1/2 at Finch West?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Joe Mihevc told me that the Crosstown has a 6-minute frequency.

The trains could start with 2 LFLRV cars. It could be expanded to 3 or 4 cars as the demand arises.

With the 1 Yonge Subway & 2 Bloor-Danforth subway, they settled with 4 car trains (or 6 red Gloucester trains) in the evenings and weekends. Now they use 6 car trains at all times, except on the 4 Sheppard which uses 4 cars at all times.

Note to remember, the Flexity Freedom cars are longer than the current subway cars. 5 LFLRVs could fit in the length of a subway platform.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The stop spacing for the BD line works great as it eliminates any need for a supplementary bus service and is dense enough to provide short range rapid transit to move mass volumes of people along it.

It's not so good for commuter long distance travel because it forces people to sit through too many stations taking up more space on the trains when those people could be on another express line bypassing the BD line instead, and getting to where they're going faster.

Eglinton could have a bus service in the west from the airport to Eglinton West station, and in the east from Kennedy to Eglinton GO station, but nothing in between.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The trains could start with 2 LFLRV cars. It could be expanded to 3 or 4 cars as the demand arises.

With the 1 Yonge Subway & 2 Bloor-Danforth subway, they settled with 4 car trains (or 6 red Gloucester trains) in the evenings and weekends. Now they use 6 car trains at all times, except on the 4 Sheppard which uses 4 cars at all times.

Note to remember, the Flexity Freedom cars are longer than the current subway cars. 5 LFLRVs could fit in the length of a subway platform.

Just a note, but the ECLRT is being built for 3 car trains. 4 cars won't be possible on the line, just how 8 car trains are not possible on the YUS.

as for Bloor, the DRL should fix the issue of commuters sitting through dozens of local stations. The ECLRT will rarely be used for more than a few stops to get to the YUS line so I don't see too much of an issue with the local stop spacing. Not too many people will be taking the line end to end.

 

[nfitz]

Just a note, but the ECLRT is being built for 3 car trains. 4 cars won't be possible on the line, just how 8 car trains are not possible on the YUS.

We should also remember that a 3-car Eglinton train is about the same length as a 4-car Sheppard Train, as the LRT cars are 30 metres long compared to 23 metres on the other subway lines.

(which would be about the same as a 7-car SRT train ... SRT trains are only 4 cars - the entire train is only about 52 metres long.

 

[ehlow]

We should also remember that a 3-car Eglinton train is about the same length as a 4-car Sheppard Train, as the LRT cars are 30 metres long compared to 23 metres on the other subway lines.

(which would be about the same as a 7-car SRT train ... SRT trains are only 4 cars - the entire train is only about 52 metres long.

From what I understand Eglinton will start with 2-car trains with the option of going to 3-cars.

What about Sheppard, Finch, and Scarborough (if it were built as an LRT)?