Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[ehlow]

But the line runs underneath Yonge Street, what houses were expropriated? I could understand when they wanted to do the Spadina expressway, that would have run through neighbourhoods, but if its a line underneath a major street that runs north / south or even east / west, they would not be bulldozing anything. They are not bulldozing anything along Eglinton, well they do need to put the stations someplace, I never thought of that

The subway doesn't run directly under Yonge between Eglinton and Bloor, it runs beside Yonge in the open trench. Even the part between Summerhill and St Clair was a trench that was covered.

Keep in mind this is the early 1950's. Eglinton is dug by tunnel boring machine so it's a different construction technique. Technology has changed since the 50's.

They did something similar for Bloor, that's why the subway runs north of Bloor and is elevated or open in many areas.

 

[junctionist]

It would probably still be cheaper to build a subway through Scarborough subdivisions by demolishing a row of houses today just like in the 1950s.

 

[muller877]

+1
50 years ago, planners simply expropriated historic homes by the thousands, bulldozed them, carved a trench into the landscape and built a cut and cover subway box for endless miles. They did this through neighbourhoods where this would be unthinkable today: Rosedale, the Annex, Playter Estates.

Just expropriating 1,000 of those homes today would set us back a billion dollars...and that's assuming that the rest of the residents of these neighbourhoods would be okay with that - which, I would wager, they wouldn't. And that's before a nickel has been spent on actual subway construction!

Amazing old picture. And that's why the HK MTR makes money...real estate. They would buy up all the land for a billion, build a subway for a fraction of the price that we do which drives up the land value even farther and then develop. A mall and a couple of office towers at every stop and then 20+ apartments surrounding each stop.

There are pro's and con's to this....something probably best done in a different thread. But there are areas of Eglington that it would have cut the cost considerably.

 

[smallspy]

Huh? What consecutive circles? Where are they meeting?

On the map, you drew circles with roughly 600 metre radii around each station, no? Look at the points at which one circle from one station intersects the next circle. The distance from that point to the nearest station entrance, despite being 600 metres in a straight line, is 800 metres or more once one takes into account the actual route that one is capable of walking.

You did... "Only a small percentage of the catchment area of any given station is on Eglinton."

You were the one arguing about how important it is to have these coverage stations because of demand originating from the houses off of Eglinton. Yet a station at Oakwood really wouldn't benefit more than a small number of houses. The businesses along Eglinton, which you earlier said were only a "small percentage of the catchment area," would be well covered regardless of an Oakwood station existing.

So, you are suggesting then that Oakwood and Dufferin have no businesses on them near Eglinton then?

You want more proof? Watch how many people walk north and south on Dufferin from Eglinton in the morning or afternoon, and not to the Dufferin Bus stops.

Because it's minor. Even Yonge and Eglinton, which is several times denser than Oakwood, would only see 1,900 walk-in/walk-offs during peak hour. Extrapolating through the day you'd still end up with middling ridership. Eglinton West is only expected to see 1,100 peak hour walk-ins. Oakwood would surely be only a few hundred.

Eglinton West is only expected to see 1,100 peak hour walk-ins because it is located between a highway and a park.

Okay, that's a slight exaggeration - but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't the easiest station to get to, and that the current built form and zoning won't change that. Oakwood will be located in an area where there are existing businesses and residences within metres of the proposed station entrances.

Oakwood and Eglinton isn't exactly comparable to Yonge or Bloor through downtown. It's a fairly modest retail strip surrounded by not-very-dense single family homes.

I think you are taking me too literally. By the central portion of the Bloor-Danforth Line, I was referring to the portion between Jane and Main Street - which is very similar in character to that part of the Eglinton Line.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

Today I bet a lot of stations along Bloor/Danforth would not be built due to cost.

 

[diminutive]

On the map, you drew circles with roughly 600 metre radii around each station, no? Look at the points at which one circle from one station intersects the next circle. The distance from that point to the nearest station entrance, despite being 600 metres in a straight line, is 800 metres or more once one takes into account the actual route that one is capable of walking.

The difference isn't that great. In most cases, if you measure by hand, the distance ends up being 700meters. The only case where distances seem to exceed 800m is at Roselawn and Locksley.

What difference does it make? The marginal difference between all of these values is a few dozen single family detached homes. All of the businesses, and any future development, along Eglinton itself would be covered; the difference is a few marginal homes.

Once you include surface routes, the coverage gap shrinks even more. For someone coming from Oakwood Village for instance, why even bother walking to Oakwood Station? It would be quicker to take the 63 to Eglinton West.

So, you are suggesting then that Oakwood and Dufferin have no businesses on them near Eglinton then?

You want more proof? Watch how many people walk north and south on Dufferin from Eglinton in the morning or afternoon, and not to the Dufferin Bus stops.

I don't think I ever criticized the existence of a Dufferin stop...

Eglinton West is only expected to see 1,100 peak hour walk-ins because it is located between a highway and a park.

Okay, that's a slight exaggeration - but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't the easiest station to get to, and that the current built form and zoning won't change that. Oakwood will be located in an area where there are existing businesses and residences within metres of the proposed station entrances.

It's also a much more useful and attractive station than Oakwood since there's a direct ride downtown...

Why'd you ignore the Yonge and Eg results? That station has far more density than anywhere else on the line but still hardly generates huge walk-in volumes.

I think you are taking me too literally. By the central portion of the Bloor-Danforth Line, I was referring to the portion between Jane and Main Street - which is very similar in character to that part of the Eglinton Line.

Ok, that's fine, but once you take away feeder routes, you end up with low ridership stations like Christie or Chester High Park.

I'm pretty sure all of these areas are actually denser than Oakwood/Eglinton (more semis, basement units ect..), but in any case it proves my point that Oakwood (or Chaplin ect...) will be very low ridership.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I originally read that the trains on the Eglinton Crosstown would run 10 min apart which I was shocked to hear because I suspect most people are thinking subway timing of lets say 4 minutes during rush hour (its not the Yonge line after all)

According to the EA, they would be using the same 5± minute headway as the heavy rail subway. Even closer headways during the rush hour. If this was U.S., it would be 10± minute headways.

Meanwhile, they posted some information on the sewer repair on Eglinton at Oakwood, at this link.

What: Crews will be repairing a small section of City of Toronto sewer adjacent to the sidewalk on Eglinton Ave, west of Oakwood Ave for several weeks.

Where: The work zone will extend approximately west of Oakwood Ave to approximately Times Rd. The current construction zone on the south side of Eglinton Avenue West will remain for the on –going headwall construction. Barriers will be used to separate the work zone from the traffic.

When: Starting as early as March 17th, 2014, crews will begin setting up the area for repairs of the sewer. The work zone currently on the west side of Oakwood Avenue will expand and fencing will be placed on the sidewalk to encompass and allow for work on the sewer from the south west corner at Eglinton and Oakwood Ave to approximately 1631 Eglinton Ave for several weeks. Crews will continue to occupy the roadway for this repair as well.

Traffic Details

During these repairs, the work zone will allow for pedestrians along the south sidewalk of the Eglinton Ave. On occasion, temporary closures of the sidewalk may be needed at which time a flagman will redirect pedestrians. Access from Eglinton Avenue into the Toronto Green Parking lot at 1607 Eglinton Ave and The HUB parking lot will be prohibited and vehicles will need to enter from Lanark Ave.

Lanark Avenue between the entrance of Toronto Green Parking lot and Oakwood Avenue will continue to temporarily allow two-way traffic for easy access in and out of the parking lots.

Traffic on Eglinton Avenue will remain as one lane in each direction near at Oakwood Avenue. Please take care when travelling near construction areas. Pedestrian walkways will remain open but may be closed temporarily for short intervals. Every effort will be made to maintain front door entrances of businesses and residents. Please watch for additional signs directing pedestrians.

Work Hours

The hours of work as permitted by the by-law for this contract are between 7 a.m. and 11 p.m., 7 days a week, when required. The contractor will not always work during the extended hours, but may do so at its discretion.

- See more at: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...r-on-eglinton-at-oakwood#sthash.bKwhDPlh.dpuf

 

[nfitz]

lol... there's no way they're spending billions of dollars building a tunnel & track, buying the vehicles, and only running a vehicle every 10 minutes. Especially given the ridership expected.

Off-peak? Why not ... there are subway lines in other cities run only once every 10 minutes ... or even once every 20 minutes off-peak.

However I thought I read somewhere that they were planning to run at no worse than every 6 minutes (can't find reference). The current frequency off-peak is 5.5 minutes on the Shepherd line and 6.75 minutes on the SRT.

 

[ehlow]

Off-peak? Why not ... there are subway lines in other cities run only once every 10 minutes ... or even once every 20 minutes off-peak.

However I thought I read somewhere that they were planning to run at no worse than every 6 minutes (can't find reference). The current frequency off-peak is 5.5 minutes on the Shepherd line and 6.75 minutes on the SRT.

Yeah but we have different standards in Toronto. To me this is one of the key parts of my definition of rapid transit. 8 minutes or less off-peak is fine. If it's on the rapid transit map, which it will be, then it should have similar if not the same frequencies as subways.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Today I bet a lot of stations along Bloor/Danforth would not be built due to cost.

I don't think so. The ECLRT has approximate equal stop spacing to BD. The Relief Line will likely be the same.

 

[innsertnamehere]

along the king street corridor portion the DRL should be the same. as it cuts up to bloor however I feel longer stop spacing is needed or else the DRL will have no time advantage..

 

[Johnny Au]

Joe Mihevc told me that the Crosstown has a 6-minute frequency.

 

[ehlow]

I drove by the east launch site near Leslie, and noticed that nothing visible has happened

 

[innsertnamehere]

doesn't seem right.. is that for the surface portion? because if its for the underground portion than the surface will be seeing 12 minute frequency, which is starting to get a bit high. (though mind you the Spadina extension will see 9 minute frequency as well)

 

[ehlow]

doesn't seem right.. is that for the surface portion? because if its for the underground portion than the surface will be seeing 12 minute frequency, which is starting to get a bit high. (though mind you the Spadina extension will see 9 minute frequency as well)

Spadina ext at 9 min freq? Off peak I'm assuming?