T3G
Senior Member
Call me crazy, but wouldn't it have made sense to build trackage that could withstand CLRV operation along it?
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mrgrieves
Active Member
drum118
Superstar
TTC has been rebuilding their system with a new style where the tracks are supposed to last 20-25 years, the subbase including the ties 50 years and the base 75-100 years. Curbs will see replacement sooner since there take more pounding than straight track. Switches have no timeframe other than when they need to be replace. Most to all of us. if not all us will be around to see if it really will happen for the first 2 timeframe and none for the full cycle .
Even after TTC has build areas to the new style, rails were replaced after 5 years because pounding of the CLRV's on straight tracks.
TTC claims its faster to remove the topcoat and then remove the rail from the clips and then replace the top coat once the new rail in place.
Given I have seen at least 5 different methods for laying tracks, no idea at this time if TTC is the better way of doing it.
drum118
Superstar
Concrete and track repairs will occur at various locations along the route including at Bathurst, Vaughan and in Oakwood Loop. Track lubricators will be added at Oakwood and Earlscourt Loops to reduce wheel squeal.
Crosstown ROW and TTC ROW are 2 different animals with Crosstown seeing less impact on it.
mrgrieves
Active Member
how are the at-grade sections different? can regular maintenance also long-term shut down the line?
smallspy
Senior Member
The only major track replacement project is at St. Clair West, where the entirety of the loop will be replaced.
There are a number of track replacements at a couple of the stops, but those jobs can and frequently are done in a weekend. Likewise for the couple of spots where they will be milling the concrete in the ROW.
Installing lubricators has traditionally been done without affecting service, but while the line is down, they're taking the opportunity to install those two.
There is a City Water project around Lansdowne that requires the removal of the westbound track - that's the only other long-term track project/obstruction on the line.
Meaning what, exactly?
Because to the rail, the cars themselves are virtually identical. The trackage construction methodology is different, but I don't see any reason why the track on the Crosstown would last any shorter or longer than the most recently-constructed streetcar track does today.
Dan
drum118
Superstar
The different between the 2 ROW is the fact that Crosstown doesn't have concrete around the rail nor sees any traffic on it other than at intersection. Crosstown base from the west portal to Kennedy Rd has a huge duct bank at the base for Hydro, cables, and other things compared to TTC small duct bank for TTC only...
TTC ROW are supposed to see EMS service on it as well police and TTC buses. That said, the ROW sees very little vehicles on it other than illegal traffic from time to time.
It takes less time to replace tracks on Crosstown than TTC ROW including switches since no concrete has to be removed or add other than at intersections...
TTC ROW is different from Crosstown ROW as well Finch ROW and Mississauga ROW. Crosstown and Mississauga ROW are basely the same with Finch being different from the other 3 for track replacement.
End of the day, wear and tear of the rail will say when the rails will have to be replace.
smallspy
Senior Member
The addition or subtraction of concrete around the rail has no bearing on the longevity of the rail.
There are two duct banks along Eglinton. One for Hydro and others, and one for the transit system's requirements. Just like on St. Clair.
Considering that we have not yet seen a track replacement on the Crosstown, this is a very premature assumption.
Dan
drum118
Superstar
Wasn't talking about timeline for rail life cycle in concrete, but the time it takes to remove it and pour new concreate compare to removing the rail clip. Both types of ROW use the clip system and it should be the same length of time to remove and reinstall rail. TTC has to remove and reinstall concrete at an extra cost to do it as well a longer time frame to do the work.
Until we see rail replace on Crosstown, assuming it will be fast as TTC.
More important, service can still operate on a single track with longer headway for service on Crosstown, compare to detours for TTC streetcars while rail are replace.
Thanks to Flickr who has lost over 50,000 of my photos, I can't show the comparison between the 2 ROW and not going to spend time digging through my 100,000's photos to find the photos to show the deferments. Going from memory, St Clair ROW is the same style as all of TTC new system with Toronto Hydro running duct banks under the sidewalks as well other banks. Various cables were strung on the poles until the ductwork was ready for them. Crosstown duct banks are under the ROW itself with a lot more of them than St Clair.
Finch and Mississauga ROW can operate on a single track while rails are replace with Finch taking a lot longer based on how they are installed that doesn't match TTC, Eglinton or Mississauga system. That said, intersections will be a different story.
reinventingthewheel
Active Member
Astute distinction!
From all your visits do you happen to know how frequently track crossovers are being/have been installed on these new lines?
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drum118
Superstar
There are 2 for grade level with one at Sloane Station area and the other at Birchmount Station Area that are far apart. Can't speak to the tunnel, but expect the same as the surface.
Not aware of any surface ones for Finch at this time.
Mississauga looks to have 2 so far with one at Trader and the other at Northflight that are miles apart, since this is the only area where the guideway exist at this time.
As far as I am concern, a few more is needed between those 2 locations.
toronto647
Active Member
Are we still expecting the opening date announcement within 20 days?
End of Summer is Friday, September 22, 2023, and we are supposed to find out before that. I wonder whether Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau are going to make the announcement and make it a big hype deal or what exactly they have in store. Maybe Chow and Metrolinx n TTC CEO join too. Should be a star studded affair lol
toronto.ctvnews.ca
End of Summer is Friday, September 22, 2023, and we are supposed to find out before that. I wonder whether Doug Ford and Justin Trudeau are going to make the announcement and make it a big hype deal or what exactly they have in store. Maybe Chow and Metrolinx n TTC CEO join too. Should be a star studded affair lol
Opening date of Eglinton Crosstown LRT to be announced by end of summer: Metrolinx CEO
The tentative opening date of the much-delayed Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) line will be revealed by the end of the summer, the head of Metrolinx announced Thursday.
smallspy
Senior Member
Again, they replace carstops in a weekend, and that's including pouring a new top layer of concrete. It's not a long process.
Well, yeah.
Not necessarily. It's going to be very location dependent.
The TTC owns at least one set of "California Crossovers", and has used them in the past. But they stopped because they found that the vibration of cars passing on the other track negatively affected the curing concrete.
There are lots of places on the Crosstown where the rails are encased in concrete right up to the top of the rail. And at those locations, when they have to replace the top layer of concrete, the TTC will not run service alongside the construction work.
The Finch Line may be a different matter altogether. I don't know how the fixing grout handles vibration, or how long it takes to cure. Maybe it will work better in this situation.
As I wrote above, that may not necessarily be the case. We will see.
Well all of the crossovers have been installed and used, so they're not going to be putting in any more.
On the underground sections, the spacing seems to be about the same as on the subway, every 2 to 3 kms. Aboveground, they're putting them in somewhat more closely.
Dan
GenerationLee
Senior Member
As I passed Bayview station today, they were power washing the concrete pavers in the mini plaza by the entrance to the NW corner. I didn't bother looking at the SE entrance, but it needed a lot more work done as of a few weeks ago as it's the main entrance, with a bigger footprint etc.
I'm not sure how useful it was to powerwash things with the storm we have going on right now, but I figure there must've been a point to it.
I'm not sure how useful it was to powerwash things with the storm we have going on right now, but I figure there must've been a point to it.
DSC
Superstar
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If one postponed things like power washing because of a rain shower I can assure you it would never be done -