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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Well, unless the city does not want to densify Eglinton East, I'd prefer elevated on the power centres stretch, and trenched for any future Eglinton West extension (in the ROW next to the road). Imagine direct access to an elevated station from the 3rd floor of a building's podium.
 
All this talk of trenching and elevating... I think at-grade could work very well if done right and be just as good as grade-separating the line. They just need to program all the lights on the route properly and sync them with a GPS tracking system, and minimize the number of stations to 800-1000m spacing.

There's youtube videos of buses and trams in Europe that very rarely get a red light. The traffic lights change to green just before the vehicle reaches them. If there's room on the streets and all lrvs and intersection lights are properly controlled centrally then the system could work just as well as a subway.

The only big disadvantage would be the possibility of car accidents blocking trains, but a big plow on front of the LRVs would take care of that issue :)
 
11th said:
Well, unless the city does not want to densify Eglinton East, I'd prefer elevated on the power centres stretch, and trenched for any future Eglinton West extension (in the ROW next to the road). Imagine direct access to an elevated station from the 3rd floor of a building's podium.
Click to expand...

I'd be up for that for sure. Elevated or trenched, as long as it's separated from traffic and not in a tunnel.

But somehow I don't think Eglinton East is going to be the subject of much densification. Maybe a few condos around the stations, but that's about it. It isn't going to become a grand boulevard anytime soon. I would venture to say that most of the densification is going to be occurring between the Don River and Jane St.

brainfreezed said:
All this talk of trenching and elevating... I think at-grade could work very well if done right and be just as good as grade-separating the line. They just need to program all the lights on the route properly and sync them with a GPS tracking system, and minimize the number of stations to 800-1000m spacing.

There's youtube videos of buses and trams in Europe that very rarely get a red light. The traffic lights change to green just before the vehicle reaches them. If there's room on the streets and all lrvs and intersection lights are properly controlled centrally then the system could work just as well as a subway.

The only big disadvantage would be the possibility of car accidents blocking trains, but a big plow on front of the LRVs would take care of that issue :)
Click to expand...

As pointed out earlier, if a line runs at-grade, it limits the length of the train to 2 cars, which could have severe effects on the capacity of the line. This was ok when the Eglinton line was running independent of the SLRT, but now that they're interlined capacity could become an issue.
 
brainfreezed said:
All this talk of trenching and elevating... I think at-grade could work very well if done right and be just as good as grade-separating the line. They just need to program all the lights on the route properly and sync them with a GPS tracking system, and minimize the number of stations to 800-1000m spacing.

There's youtube videos of buses and trams in Europe that very rarely get a red light. The traffic lights change to green just before the vehicle reaches them. If there's room on the streets and all lrvs and intersection lights are properly controlled centrally then the system could work just as well as a subway.

The only big disadvantage would be the possibility of car accidents blocking trains, but a big plow on front of the LRVs would take care of that issue :)
Click to expand...

The problem is what it does to north-south vehicle movement on busy streets like Victoria Park or Warden. If you have a trains spaced at three minute headways, both directions, and each pass by a 100m-long train forces the intersection to close to car movement for 20 seconds, then you're talking about something like 70 seconds open, 20 seconds closed, 70 seconds open and so on. You don't have to believe in a war on the car to realize this will have some nasty effects.

Calgary does high-speed at-grade really well, but even they grade-separate once the crossing roads get to a certain size. The busiest arterial I reckon that crosses Calgary's LRT at-grade where it's median-running is probably 32 Ave NE, which is quieter than a Victoria Park or Warden. Calgary has grade separated most of the other crossings that're equivalently busy.
 
gweed123 said:
As pointed out earlier, if a line runs at-grade, it limits the length of the train to 2 cars, which could have severe effects on the capacity of the line. This was ok when the Eglinton line was running independent of the SLRT, but now that they're interlined capacity could become an issue.
Click to expand...


No it is not limited to 2 car trains on the surface, the surface platform were designed as 90 metres in length, and the vast majority of the rider ship increase as a result of interlining came from passengers who are already riding the BD line, It is not worth the cost premium of total grade separation to build those existing riders another line, so it is also not worth interlining the SRT with Eglinton.
 
Elevated from laird to Kennedy and trench west of Jane.... The land is there in the west why wouldnt we use it. And in the east its big box stores so I cant see the objection to elevated.
 
sixrings said:
Elevated from laird to Kennedy and trench west of Jane.... The land is there in the west why wouldnt we use it. And in the east its big box stores so I cant see the objection to elevated.
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. Remember kids this line is to be automated which means total grade separation. Toronto always bitches that he gets little money for operating expenses and nothing brings down that cost like automation.
 
I'd like to see grade separation at stations at lleast as a pedestrian safety issue. On streets with less cross-traffic it matters less whether or not there is grade separation as it is easier to give almost full priority to LRVs at these intersections.
 
im pretty sure it can be automated without being grade seperated. and I dont know how pedestrian safety is a concern if its in median. Are people jaywalking across 6 lanes of eglinton? I also tend to think in median gives pedestrians the best access since they dont have to walk up or down stairs. However that convienence is at the cost of speed which I think should be a priority on Eglinton.

In the end I am beginning to think the cheapest way to fix our transit issues is to redirect businesses to places we want growth through reduced taxes. SO for instance if they reduce the taxes to 905 levels at yonge and Eglinton then alot of new businesses will end up somewhere we are planning transit. The same goes for yonge and Sheppard. If you reduce taxes enough that businesses start to move in at yonge and sheppard the sheppard line starts to make more and more sense. PLus Torontonians stop losing these businesses to the 905. I wouls put dundas west in this category as well since its served by a subway and potentially 2 GO train lines.
 
Voltz said:
No it is not limited to 2 car trains on the surface, the surface platform were designed as 90 metres in length, and the vast majority of the rider ship increase as a result of interlining came from passengers who are already riding the BD line, It is not worth the cost premium of total grade separation to build those existing riders another line, so it is also not worth interlining the SRT with Eglinton.
Click to expand...

The surface platforms were designed for a maximum length of a-3 car train, but were to be built for 2-car trains. That was all the TTC had calculated would be needed for the immediate future.

As well, only every second train would have run past Brentcliffe/Don Mills. They weren't planning for better than 5 or 6 minute service east of the tunnelled section because the passenger loads didn't require it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
sixrings said:
im pretty sure it can be automated without being grade seperated. and I dont know how pedestrian safety is a concern if its in median. Are people jaywalking across 6 lanes of eglinton? I also tend to think in median gives pedestrians the best access since they dont have to walk up or down stairs. However that convienence is at the cost of speed which I think should be a priority on Eglinton.

In the end I am beginning to think the cheapest way to fix our transit issues is to redirect businesses to places we want growth through reduced taxes. SO for instance if they reduce the taxes to 905 levels at yonge and Eglinton then alot of new businesses will end up somewhere we are planning transit. The same goes for yonge and Sheppard. If you reduce taxes enough that businesses start to move in at yonge and sheppard the sheppard line starts to make more and more sense. PLus Torontonians stop losing these businesses to the 905. I wouls put dundas west in this category as well since its served by a subway and potentially 2 GO train lines.
Click to expand...

No way - unless you mean exclusive, protected right of way at grade, which I would classify as grade seperated in any case.
 
sixrings said:
Elevated from laird to Kennedy and trench west of Jane.... The land is there in the west why wouldnt we use it. And in the east its big box stores so I cant see the objection to elevated.
Click to expand...

If it was elevated, would an extra station at/near Ionview Rd. help sell this area on the elevated? The rest is all big box stores so there should be no problems for the EA there.

Has there been any preliminary proposal for how the Ford plan would make the curve up the the SRT corridor?
 
Platform 27 said:
Calgary does high-speed at-grade really well, but even they grade-separate once the crossing roads get to a certain size. The busiest arterial I reckon that crosses Calgary's LRT at-grade where it's median-running is probably 32 Ave NE, which is quieter than a Victoria Park or Warden. Calgary has grade separated most of the other crossings that're equivalently busy.
Click to expand...
The view of that intersection reminds me of the section of Sheppard East east of McCowan more so than the stretch of Eglinton that's going to receive the LRT line.
 
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