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Toronto City Summit Alliance: GTA needs road tolls and taxes now

Works in theory. But I disagree that it's fair in practice. Is it fair to ding a Barrie-Mississauga business traveller who happens to get caught in the congestion on the 400 from Toronto bound commuters?

I'd much rather penalize based on the availability of an alternative. To start with, impose parking taxes in the CBD. Forget tolls. Parking taxes work much more stealthily and will probably be far more effective. Require all commercial and residential owners to declare how many parking spots they have. Then tax them according to the areas they are in and based on congestion. Not just the CBD. But maybe tax parking spots along heavily congested corridors like central Eglinton. I am willing to bet that as soon as any semblance of free parking in the core ends and parking rates become $20 per day standard, you'll see a lot less driving to the core.

Shouldn't we be taxing what causes traffic? For example, giant parking-lot wal-marts should be taxed for each parking space. Punishing CBD businesses which largely rely on sustainable transit will encourage them to leave the CBD for suburbia.

They're so quick to want to capture benefits (tax) land near subways? When are we going to start capture value from businesses who benefit from all those government highways?

I'm especially on about freeway-side retail. They get all the exposure and benefits of a government owned highway... Why not charge them for the privilege?
 
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But is there mass congestion during peak hours to get to Walmart?

It goes back to what the goal is. Is it to discourage driving, promote transit use or get rid of Walmarts? If it's congestion then you gotta target CBD bound customers. If it's Walmart then target them....though they'll just pass on the costs to consumers. You could end up just causing inflation instead of altering behaviour.
 
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But is there mass congestion during peak hours to get to Walmart?

It goes back to what the goal is. Is it to discourage driving, promote transit use or get rid of Walmarts? If it's congestion then you gotta target CBD bound customers. If it's Walmart then target them....though they'll just pass on the costs to consumers. You could end up just causing inflation instead of altering behaviour.

The traffic on Hwy 7 in York region is worse than anything I have seen in or near downtown. If wal-mart raises their prices, that only gives a competitive advantage to Joe's local general shop which has more walk-in clients than drive-ins. Which therein influence behavior.
 
^ I doubt the difference will be huge unless you tax Walmart's parking spots and leave Joe's parking spots unscathed. But that would amount to a subsidy.

As for Hwy 7, I would bet that poor transit in the region, it being a vital regional artery and the lack of transit-oriented development are all factors in creating the traffic mess. Taxing Walmarts alone won't do much.

Also, how would you address the political saleability of the idea. There's adequate transit alternatives to get to and around the CBD. No such thing exists in York Region. You'd be hard pressed at this time I would think making the case for a parking tax. After the BRT maybe, in a targeted fashion, say parking spots along HWY 7 only.
 
For example, giant parking-lot wal-marts should be taxed for each parking space.

How about we remove minimum parking requirements from zoning bylaws first? Some of those parking spots aren't necessarily voluntary.

I suppose one could tax for every spot over the minimum.
 
Why do only trips to downtown cause congestion? Time of use tolling would help to encourage carpooling, shorter commutes, transit use or off-peak use. What's fairness got to do with it? What's unfair is free highways, and no one getting to use them (since they are parking lots instead during rush hours). It's a waste.
 
Why do only trips to downtown cause congestion?

Because there's still too many of them and they make up the largest portion of trips during peak hours. Not saying there isn't congestion elsewhere. But the bulk of the highway congestion is caused by CBD bound commuters.

Time of use tolling would help to encourage carpooling, shorter commutes, transit use or off-peak use.

I see it another way. Time of use tolling might encourage carpooling more immediately and shorter commutes over the very long run. But it won't drive off-peak transit use. It might actually increase peak time congestion on transit, making things worse than they are now. What it might increase is off-peak driving.

That said, it again goes to the question of what the goal is. Is the goal to reduce highway congestion (in which case tolling the highways or taxing the parking spots where those cars end up makes sense) or to discourage driving absolutely (in which case you tax Walmart spots in York Region).

What kettal and you (because you are advocating for tolls where congestion does not exist...though I could be misunderstanding you) are attacking is driving in general. What the TCSA is targetting is road (and specifically highway) congestion.

What's fairness got to do with it? What's unfair is free highways, and no one getting to use them (since they are parking lots instead during rush hours). It's a waste.

Look at where tolls have come in. They have only come in where roads have been congested (like London or Singapore for example). Blanket tolls won't fly with the public. Put them on and they'll vote out that government so fast that road tolls won't come up again for the next half-century.

Sometimes I think people on UT forget what it's like to be an average Torontonian who struggles with the bills they have. If you slap on tolls without offering a reasonable transit alternative, it will most certainly be seen as a dick move rather than a gentle nudge towards moving away from driving, since it is quite likely that most people will just have to eat the tax if the alternative isn't viable for them (at that point it's just a tax, not an incentive/disincentive behaviour modification plan). It won't be seen as fair at all. With that in mind, the easiest group to target are CBD bound commuters. Transit is arguably adequate or at least well on its way to being adequate (MO2020 GO plans). So the public won't see the shift as a total tax grab. They will probably be far more supportive. Hitting commuters going from Scarborough to Pickering or Etobicoke to Mississauga, where no adequate transit solution exists (at least not something that wouldn't take an hour and 3 fares usuallY) is quite likely to cause a backlash and be seen as a pure tax grab.
 
Implement more subways and LRT's first and then set up tolls
When the tolls are meant to pay for the more subways and LRT, then you're in a chicken-and-the-egg situation.

I've got a more detailed write-up at home, but my basic Toronto Transportation Plan would focus on the following:

1) TTC = Toronto Transportation Commission
Lump Parking Enforcement, Transit, and Transport all together, treat it as a seperate pot of money.

2) Ring Tolls
For every hour you have a vehicle in Toronto, you pay a fee, Bulk time discounts may apply, but the premise is you pay to drive pass where the subways start.

3) MetroPasses
I would keep MetroPasses or shift to the PRESTO model of reducing cost based on frequency of use. I would axe the Vehicle Registry Tax and extend a MetroPass to include unlimited vehicle use in Toronto. One vehicle registers per MetroPass.

4) Ring Parking
At the ends of the subway lines and major interchanges (401/404), I would develop major parking structures. Subsequently, I would sell off/develop at-grade parking within Toronto. Unlimited parking at TTC stations is included in a MetroPass.

5) No On-Street Parking
A city parking plan would go a long way to developing parking structures that make economic sense for local businesses. The start of this is to get cars off our streets and into parking lots.

6) No 9-5 Workweek
We have Peak Congestion because we fit our lives into a 9-5 work week. I would begin by legisting the TSX to open at Atlantic Time and close at Pacific Time. Increase the potential use of the TSX as a Canadian market and improved intermarket mobility with Europe and Asia. Otherwise, give a tax break based on corporate percentage of hours worked outside 9-5 Mon-Fri.
 
Because there's still too many of them and they make up the largest portion of trips during peak hours. Not saying there isn't congestion elsewhere. But the bulk of the highway congestion is caused by CBD bound commuters.

I'm skeptical. There is plenty of highway congestion in the suburbs, caused by people driving from one suburb clear across the city to another suburb. I don't think it matters what the origin/destination is. Where there is congestion, there should be time of use tolls. If you check out that TCSA report, they mention LA's experience with toll lanes, which actually handle double the volume per lane than 'free' lanes. Even modest tolls might help improve the performance of these highways, benefiting the users and society as a whole. I wonder what difference there is in performance of the 407 vs the 401 in peak lane capacity/throughput.

I see it another way. Time of use tolling might encourage carpooling more immediately and shorter commutes over the very long run. But it won't drive off-peak transit use. It might actually increase peak time congestion on transit, making things worse than they are now. What it might increase is off-peak driving.

What's very long run? I'd call it medium term, with effects seen in terms of moving closer to work or working closer to home within 2 - 3 years of implementation. I was referring to off-peak highway usage. The goal of time of use tolling isn't to drive off-peak transit usage.

That said, it again goes to the question of what the goal is. Is the goal to reduce highway congestion (in which case tolling the highways or taxing the parking spots where those cars end up makes sense) or to discourage driving absolutely (in which case you tax Walmart spots in York Region).

I don't think taxing parking spots would work in reducing congestion on highways like the 401 or 407. These highways carry substantial inter-suburb traffic, and unless you're taxing these suburban parking spots, you do nothing to deter these trips. In fact, I'd characterize parking tax as having only a weak effect on congestion, as it utterly fails to take into account distance driven.

What kettal and you (because you are advocating for tolls where congestion does not exist...though I could be misunderstanding you) are attacking is driving in general. What the TCSA is targetting is road (and specifically highway) congestion.

I'm not advocating tolls in the absence of congestion as a way to reduce congestion--that is totally illogical. I'd be open to a flat toll proportional to the cost of the infrastructure, but I expect this would be low (5 or 10 cents per km). This could be applied through a odometer tax at plate renewal time. I would even support these replacing gasoline excise taxes and flat plate taxes. The latter especially is pointless in reducing congestion as it is totally insensitive to amount of use. Fuel excise taxes under-burden fuel efficient (and future electric) cars for their impact on infrastructure. And promising to reduce gasoline prices by 15 cents a litre might make the medicine go down a bit easier. If we're to tax gasoline, it should be through a carbon tax. A gas tax is a foolish way to pay for transportation infrastructure.

Look at where tolls have come in. They have only come in where roads have been congested (like London or Singapore for example). Blanket tolls won't fly with the public. Put them on and they'll vote out that government so fast that road tolls won't come up again for the next half-century.

I don't particularly like the model London has gone with. It reduces the number of cars in the downtown area, but does nothing to reduce highway congestion.

Sometimes I think people on UT forget what it's like to be an average Torontonian who struggles with the bills they have. If you slap on tolls without offering a reasonable transit alternative, it will most certainly be seen as a dick move rather than a gentle nudge towards moving away from driving, since it is quite likely that most people will just have to eat the tax if the alternative isn't viable for them (at that point it's just a tax, not an incentive/disincentive behaviour modification plan). It won't be seen as fair at all. With that in mind, the easiest group to target are CBD bound commuters. Transit is arguably adequate or at least well on its way to being adequate (MO2020 GO plans). So the public won't see the shift as a total tax grab. They will probably be far more supportive. Hitting commuters going from Scarborough to Pickering or Etobicoke to Mississauga, where no adequate transit solution exists (at least not something that wouldn't take an hour and 3 fares usuallY) is quite likely to cause a backlash and be seen as a pure tax grab.

Whether or not residents can afford the toll or have a transit alternative is immaterial. The goal is to reduce highway congestion, and transit is only one alternative. People can choose shorter commutes, off-peak driving, or carpooling. We are never going to have adequate transit. But we sure as hell are going to have ungodly amounts of gridlock. It's because we have built our cities around consuming finite resources as if they were forever abundant. Every year we go without putting prices on our scarce resources is another year we increase our dependence on a doomed model of urban development. It's going to be painful now, but it will hurt a lot more later. And we'll be paying a toll one way or another: it will either be paid in dollars or time. When it's paid in dollars, at least society benefits, rather than turning our highways into giant value-incinerators.
 
I'm skeptical. There is plenty of highway congestion in the suburbs, caused by people driving from one suburb clear across the city to another suburb. I don't think it matters what the origin/destination is. Where there is congestion, there should be time of use tolls. If you check out that TCSA report, they mention LA's experience with toll lanes, which actually handle double the volume per lane than 'free' lanes. Even modest tolls might help improve the performance of these highways, benefiting the users and society as a whole. I wonder what difference there is in performance of the 407 vs the 401 in peak lane capacity/throughput.
There is a significant portion of non-core orientated peak traffic. However, it's the core-orientated peak traffic that causes the worst congestion currently. Individual intersections are overloaded and create a feedback loop from which the system cannot recooperate for hours. If you've crawlled down the DVP in the morning, you might have noticed the traffic pulsing at Lawrence and Eglinton because of the lights.

Time of use tolling gives priority to non-discretionary trips during peak hours. It doesn't really affect trips that people "have to make", which if you are sitting on the DVP or Gardiner at 8:45 AM is probably the case.


What's very long run? I'd call it medium term, with effects seen in terms of moving closer to work or working closer to home within 2 - 3 years of implementation. I was referring to off-peak highway usage. The goal of time of use tolling isn't to drive off-peak transit usage.
What is the goal of time of use tolling if not to increase off-peak usage while relieving peak usage? If more people are travelling off-peak, then off-peak transit should increase accordingly, no?



I don't think taxing parking spots would work in reducing congestion on highways like the 401 or 407. These highways carry substantial inter-suburb traffic, and unless you're taxing these suburban parking spots, you do nothing to deter these trips. In fact, I'd characterize parking tax as having only a weak effect on congestion, as it utterly fails to take into account distance driven.
Taxing parking is to shift the price point between public and private transport. It doesn't reduce congestion directly, but reduces congestion by shifting demand from private to public transport. I see it as a "and also" rather than a seperate solution to congestion.


I'm not advocating tolls in the absence of congestion as a way to reduce congestion--that is totally illogical. I'd be open to a flat toll proportional to the cost of the infrastructure, but I expect this would be low (5 or 10 cents per km). This could be applied through a odometer tax at plate renewal time. I would even support these replacing gasoline excise taxes and flat plate taxes. The latter especially is pointless in reducing congestion as it is totally insensitive to amount of use. Fuel excise taxes under-burden fuel efficient (and future electric) cars for their impact on infrastructure. And promising to reduce gasoline prices by 15 cents a litre might make the medicine go down a bit easier. If we're to tax gasoline, it should be through a carbon tax. A gas tax is a foolish way to pay for transportation infrastructure.
Sounds like London's Emissions-based Registry Tax. If all you are doing is shifting from one tax to another, you aren't going to effect overall usage only the specific usage composition.



I don't particularly like the model London has gone with. It reduces the number of cars in the downtown area, but does nothing to reduce highway congestion.
Any congestion reduction in London is theoretical. Within three months of tolling, usage was back above pre-toll levels. Unless people have an affordable alternative (because people won't turn to an unaffordable alterative), they have no choice, but to continue in their existing patterns.

Whether or not residents can afford the toll or have a transit alternative is immaterial. The goal is to reduce highway congestion, and transit is only one alternative. People can choose shorter commutes, off-peak driving, or carpooling. We are never going to have adequate transit. But we sure as hell are going to have ungodly amounts of gridlock. It's because we have built our cities around consuming finite resources as if they were forever abundant. Every year we go without putting prices on our scarce resources is another year we increase our dependence on a doomed model of urban development. It's going to be painful now, but it will hurt a lot more later. And we'll be paying a toll one way or another: it will either be paid in dollars or time. When it's paid in dollars, at least society benefits, rather than turning our highways into giant value-incinerators.
Affordablity of a toll directly relates to the extent of the tolls congestion reduction effect. A $100 per km toll would pretty well ensure that you'd never be impeded by another driver. A $0.01 per km toll would pretty well ensure that you don't give a damn about it and will use the road anyway. I own a private vehicle, but I do not want to, but for my job it's the only transportation option in many places. If and when there is public transit available to when and where I need it, I use it. When there isn't, I have to drive.

What about that is immaterial to the discussion? There are many congestion-combating methods, but how, where, why, and when people are travelling and meeting those needs seems to me to be the core issue.
 
The main problem with implementing tolls in the GTA is that there isn't much capacity for people to switch to transit, especially during peak hours. Ride the subway or GO during rush hour it is jam packed. Slapping tolls doesn't make sense because if they switch to transit then transit can't handle the loads and starts to break-down. This is already happening on the TTC where a single delay caused by people ramming into the train before doors closes causes long delays and more inefficiencies in the system.

If we seriously want to tackle downtown oriented congestion build some new capacity ==> New subway line that brings people into the city. A DRL that goes up from the downtown core NE towards Don Mills / Sheppard area would be a boon to commuters. It could single solve the worst bottleneck in the city ==> 401/404/DVP interchange. Improve transit connections from Richmond Hill and Markham to that area and then slap a $5 congestion charge to use the DVP during weekdays. Build the subway first using government issued debt and then implement a plan in place to put tolls on the highway to pay for the new line.

The same thing could be done along Lakeshore ==> Build the proper regional express GO train service (15min bi-directional service) and then slap a toll on the Gardiner/QEW.

As for the suburban areas the solution is simple and as stated before. Stop subsidizing office and industrial parks and start charging buildings for each parking spot they provide as a taxable benefit. Doing this will change the economics of where and how businesses setup their premises. In 905 land land is cheap so its fine to pave it over with massive parking lots. Use the funds to encourage transit oriented development along VIVA, Zum, or other BRT/LRT lines and improve the feeder bus transit services.
 
lead: I agree totally. This needs to be done so badly. I'd say start with parking charges, as it's only fair to make the suburban and urban areas more equitable, and use that to invest in regional rail to give people good alternatives. Then use those charges to pay for regional rail and then start tolling as for each route, to pay for more regional rail and feeder bus improvements. Unfortunately, this will never happen.
 

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