Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[TrickyRicky]

To hipster's point it also matters who you are. Most of the people here are probably young-ish male urbanites who care about high culture. In otherwords, a small somewhat irrelevent in the bigger picture demographic.

Example: If you are over 65 who cares about 4 am last call or night-time vibrancy. If you have young children you probably care more about proximity to Walmart than high fashion.

 

[SunriseChampion]

If there's one thing that my water-loving self thinks picks a winner here it's that Toronto has islands! That's it. Done. Game over.



(Though, by the same over-simplified logic, Chicago doesn't have Rob Ford...this could get difficult, no wonder you guys are arguing)

 

[Torontovibe]

Now that you mention it, it's amazing how little credit the Islands get for making Toronto more interesting and unique. How many other cities have 1000 acres of parkland, with 3 beaches, a farm, a kiddie amusement park, a quirky residential community and even a nude beach, just minutes from downtown? It is rather unique and eccentric. It perfectly represents the city, yet it seems to be undervalued. It is just one great aspect of our undervalued waterfront. I'm sure, in time, people will change their views on Toronto's waterfront. It's actually a very diverse and interesting waterfront, that needs to be explored to be appreciated. (unlike Chicago's)

 

[freshcutgrass]

Though, by the same over-simplified logic, Chicago doesn't have Rob Ford...this could get difficult, no wonder you guys are arguing

Oh...I'd much rather stick with Toronto's municipal woes...Fords included.

Chicago will likely be the next city after Detroit to go bankrupt. The City of Chicago's official debt is a mind-numbing $63.2 billion!!! But it gets worse.... Moody’s Investors Service now calculates Chicago’s unfunded pension liabilities are at least $23 billion higher than what’s officially reported. Moody's puts Chicago's debt at a staggering $86.9 billion.

That is city debt folks (and Chicago's share of County debt as well)...that's on top of any state and federal debt the taxpayers of Chicago are on the hook for. Moody's knocked Chicago's credit rating down another 3 notches, and their credit rating is so bad, they will have trouble borrowing, and will be paying higher interest.

When you look at Chicago's debt and crime, Rob Ford is a very small cross to bare.

 

[Tewder]

When you look at Chicago's debt and crime, Rob Ford is a very small cross to bare.

Amen to that!

Now that you mention it, it's amazing how little credit the Islands get for making Toronto more interesting and unique. How many other cities have 1000 acres of parkland, with 3 beaches, a farm, a kiddie amusement park, a quirky residential community and even a nude beach, just minutes from downtown? It is rather unique and eccentric. It perfectly represents the city, yet it seems to be undervalued. It is just one great aspect of our undervalued waterfront. I'm sure, in time, people will change their views on Toronto's waterfront. It's actually a very diverse and interesting waterfront, that needs to be explored to be appreciated. (unlike Chicago's)

Good point... and it sort of encapsulates how Toronto overall gets perceived out there, i.e. a really great thing that is largely undervalued and misunderstood.

 

[ShonTron]

Toronto for sure. The people are more welcoming, friendlier, less likely to give cold shoulder. This reminds me of when a friend of mine visiting from Stateside described us Torontonians as, "a little weird" because we "aren't total a-holes". Apparently it was a little unsettling (I think he was exaggerating a bit... maybe) .

And as MR Victor mentioned, Toronto has many more personalities.

Interesting!

I was at Second City last night and seated with an older couple from Toledo. From Toledo, Chicago's about an hour shorter drive (and minus the border hassles). But they like Toronto more, coming to see shows and concerts even they acknowledged there's more things to see in Chicago They said we're friendlier than Chicago. Interesting. Anecdotal for sure though.

The AGO is certainly second tier in terms of its permanent collection, but it is getting many blockbuster temporary exhibitions (I'm also a sucker for Lawren Harris). It's somewhat unfortunate that Toronto was such a backwater until the 1950s/1960s.

 

[JasonParis]

Now that you mention it, it's amazing how little credit the Islands get for making Toronto more interesting and unique. How many other cities have 1000 acres of parkland, with 3 beaches, a farm, a kiddie amusement park, a quirky residential community and even a nude beach, just minutes from downtown? It is rather unique and eccentric. It perfectly represents the city, yet it seems to be undervalued. It is just one great aspect of our undervalued waterfront. I'm sure, in time, people will change their views on Toronto's waterfront. It's actually a very diverse and interesting waterfront, that needs to be explored to be appreciated. (unlike Chicago's)

I totally agree and feel that there really should be a pedestrian bridge on both the eastern and western gap to better integrate the islands into the city, especially for cyclists. The airport is a huge probablem in realizing that on the west and the island residents are a (likely) problem on the east.

 

[Torontovibe]

But wouldn't a bridge take away that special feeling of the Islands? It should feel kinda isolated from the city. We have lots of other parks and green space in that area, including the huge Leslie Street Spit. The fact that you can only get to the Islands by boat, is part of its charms. A bridge would make it feel like just another ordinary park in the city. We have too many ordinary (trees & grass) parks as it is. I say, keep it as an isolated island. Sure, it may be harder to get to (and more expensive) but it's worth it, to preserve it's unique character. As a kid, you know we all loved the crowded ferry ride over. That was half the fun of it.

 

[flonicky]

Yeah, there hasn't been much mention of the Spit. It's really becoming an amazing place and it's just getting started.

 

[JasonParis]

But wouldn't a bridge take away that special feeling of the Islands? It should feel kinda isolated from the city...

Indeed, there's a trade-off here (which is why I expect Islanders would complain the loudest). I do think integrating it more into the city is generally a good thing though, even if it seems slightly less special to some as a result. Also, a bridge on either gap is far enough from Bay Street / Centre Island that many would likely continue to use the ferry.

 

[RC8]

A bridge from the Portlands would destroy the communities living in the island. It would make the islands very desirable for rich people who don't mind driving everywhere: They'd just have to cross a bridge to get in their cars.

 

[anonymous0024]

Except for the fact that the lottery system essentially means that income or wealth has hardly anything to do with whether you can buy a home on the island.

 

[SunriseChampion]

That's exactly what I'm saying: the islands are a huge definer of our city in my opinion. It's my personal oasis downtown. Where else in the world, really? Nowhere I've been. Chicago is played out as far as I'm concerned. It may have been cool a century ago but now it's just another example of failed America.

 

[salsa]

But wouldn't a bridge take away that special feeling of the Islands? It should feel kinda isolated from the city. We have lots of other parks and green space in that area, including the huge Leslie Street Spit. The fact that you can only get to the Islands by boat, is part of its charms. A bridge would make it feel like just another ordinary park in the city. We have too many ordinary (trees & grass) parks as it is. I say, keep it as an isolated island. Sure, it may be harder to get to (and more expensive) but it's worth it, to preserve it's unique character. As a kid, you know we all loved the crowded ferry ride over. That was half the fun of it.

I don't mind the ferry, but the terminal really needs a facelift.

 

[diminutive]

From Spacing:

Quick comparisons between Toronto’s and Chicago’s street grids:


Chicago is often referred to as Toronto’s closest sibling. Built in similar times, with similar sizes and populations, there are obvious similarities between the two. But we are by no means twins.
One of the most striking differences between the two are their street grids. Below, I’ve taken a few locations to illustrate the difference. All images are at the same scale and with Toronto rotated about 17 degrees (as commonly represented, with Toronto’s north border horizontal). Keep in mind that I have stripped the images down to show only the street grid.

If you look at the differences it's quite noticeable how deformed our street-grid is, even downtown.

I think this really speaks to how much bigger Chicago was than Toronto prior to WW2 (before the cul de sac became trendy) and why, despite overall similarities, Chicago can come across as feeling much older, more established or somehow more substantial than Toronto.