Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[jje1000]

Rather sobering and a stark reminder that Chicago is badly run.

While a city can try to grow itself out of this issue, Chicago has been shrinking for years- meaning that tougher reform is needed, something that its politicians seem unwilling to pursue.

The kicker is that these pensioners are also likely no longer living in Illinois, possibly meaning that Chicago is funding the sunbelt states.

Chicago’s government pension obligations have increased nearly sixfold since 2014, driving up Chicago’s sky-high property taxes. Another increase for 2025 was likely avoided, but city leaders need state lawmakers to make a permanent fix.

The rapid increase in pension costs has eaten most of the city’s property tax levy and taken money away from other city services, such as the city library, colleges, some note and bond funds in addition to the four city-run pension funds. Pension costs used to consume 41% of the city’s property tax levy, but now take 80% of it. Even worse, on net, every new property tax dollar raised since 2014 has gone towards rising pension costs. All other spending items from the property tax levy have seen a net decrease during the past 10 years, when adjusted for inflation.

In 2014, pension spending represented just 6.8% of the city’s net appropriation of local funds; the spending that the city controls and is responsible for. The pension share of city spending has grown nearly unabated to 22.4% of the city’s net appropriations of local funds in 2024. Pension costs are now the single-largest line item in the city’s budget, receiving more tax dollars than the police department, fire department or infrastructure.

Chicago property taxes have doubled in 10 years, thanks to pensions

Chicago’s government pension obligations have increased nearly sixfold since 2014, driving up Chicago’s sky-high property taxes. Another increase for 2025 was likely avoided, but city leaders need state lawmakers to make a permanent fix.

www.illinoispolicy.org

 

[taal]

Wait are teachers a city level entity in the states ?

 

[rbt]

Wait are teachers a city level entity in the states ?

Yes, they're municipal employees. They're largely regulated and funded by the federal/state levels though.

Teachers in Ontario are not legally government employees at all; they're school board employees which is regulated/funded by but separate from government.

 

[rdaner]

I wonder what other cities are facing this?

 

[evandyk]

The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is also very well funded. It owns pretty much everything in Ontario (TD Towers, Eaton Centre, etc.).

This is a somewhat common story in the US, though not with cities the size of Chicago.

Pensions and Bankruptcy: A Tale of Three Cities

At least for now, municipal bankruptcy is a rare -- and headline-grabbing -- occurrence. And the cities that recently filed for Chapter 9 protection didn't end up in bankruptcy court out of the blue: They can thank economic decline, dwindling revenues and population, steep increases in labor...

www.mercatus.org

 

[Northern Light]

The Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is also very well funded. It owns pretty much everything in Ontario (TD Towers, Eaton Centre, etc.).

This is a somewhat common story in the US, though not with cities the size of Chicago.

Pensions and Bankruptcy: A Tale of Three Cities

At least for now, municipal bankruptcy is a rare -- and headline-grabbing -- occurrence. And the cities that recently filed for Chapter 9 protection didn't end up in bankruptcy court out of the blue: They can thank economic decline, dwindling revenues and population, steep increases in labor...

www.mercatus.org

The principle municipal pension fund - OMERS is Oxford Properties - owner of Yorkdale and Square One, and the Convention Centre, among many other properties.

OMERS is currently 97% funded on a smoothed basis, which is fairly close to fully funded, given wobble over time.

The Teacher's Pension Plan is fully funded (actually marginal surplus, but the regulatory filing will seek to label that as contingency for this year)

 

[Jonny5]

I was in Chicago this week for work purposes. I hadn't been there in about 14 years, and I didn't have much time to walk around and spent most of my time in the Loop or Fullerton, but I thought I would share some completely unorganised thoughts:

• Notably fewer homeless in the area, though it was about -15 during the day, so perhaps even the ones who avoid shelters had packed up and gone to one. What did surprise me was how a sizeable chunk of the homeless I saw were young-looking women.
• I had forgotten how well they illuminate the historic office buildings there. The soft yellow lighting is very nice, and way better than Dallas with its tacky "look at me" green LEDs.
• UBER! Is this the only way people get around in Chicago? There were so many of them. I went out to a restaurant two nights with co-workers, and when we came out it took us two minutes to find our Uber back to the hotel as there were about 20 of them outside waiting to pick up passengers. I went to a Blackhawks game at the United Center, and it has a dedicated Uber pick up lot and there were 10 lanes, each with seven or eight cars queued waiting to pick up passengers and more lined up on the block waiting for a spot to drive in. Food at that arena was just as terrible as at Scotiabank Arena, by the way.
• So many restaurants. I knew Chicago had a massive array of restaurants from previous visits, but I was expecting COVID had made a dent in that like Toronto and that lots of those spaces would be vacant, but no, there were still some streets where the ground floor for four straight blocks on both sides was occupied by nothing but restaurants.
• Speaking of restaurants, way better service than in Toronto. Both of the two I went to were upscale, but not Michelin Starred or anything like that, but the service and attention from the staff was way beyond what you get from the indifferent "I don't want to be here" or "I was hired this morning" staff you find in the Financial District of Toronto.
• The number of major intersections of two wide multi-lane thoroughfares that had busy traffic, but simply a four-way stop and no traffic light was a shock. I think 90% of those that I passed through would have a traffic light in Toronto. When on foot, the drivers seemed very courteous to stop and wait for you to walk by, even waiving for you to go first. I wonder if Vision Zero's traffic lights everywhere has actually created more dangerous behaviour from both drivers and pedestrians, with "traffic light waiting rage" causing more collisions, the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.

 

[Northern Light]

I was in Chicago this week for work purposes. I hadn't been there in about 14 years, and I didn't have much time to walk around and spent most of my time in the Loop or Fullerton, but I thought I would share some completely unorganised thoughts:

• Notably fewer homeless in the area, though it was about -15 during the day, so perhaps even the ones who avoid shelters had packed up and gone to one.

Chicago's Loop area is much more heavily policed, in the literal and figurative senses than Toronto. Chicago has other areas that are less attended to......

Toronto's homeless count on any given day is between 12,000 to 15,000.

Chicago's 2024 count was 18, 800

That said, Chicago housing prices are a fraction of Toronto's and the minimum wage is higher (exchange rate adjusted). So for those who can/do work full-time, acute poverty (give or take healthcare issues) is less likely.

Minimum wage is $16.20USD per hour which is $23.32CAD

• What did surprise me was how a sizeable chunk of the homeless I saw were young-looking women.

That is unusual.

• I had forgotten how well they illuminate the historic office buildings there. The soft yellow lighting is very nice, and way better than Dallas with it's tacky "look at me" green LEDs.

Agreed.

• So many restaurants. I knew Chicago had a massive array of restaurants from previous visits, but I was expecting COVID had made a dent in that like Toronto and that lots of those spaces would be vacant, but no, there were still some streets where the ground floor for four straight blocks on both sides was occupied by nothing but restaurants.

Toronto has more restaurants than Chicago, about 9,000 to 7,000

But Chicago's are more concentrated in a few areas of the City, Toronto's are more dispersed.

• Speaking of restaurants, way better service than in Toronto. Both of the two I went to were upscale, but not Michelin Starred or anything like that, but the service and attention from the staff was way beyond what you get from the indifferent "I don't want to be here" or "I was hired this morning" staff you find in the Financial District of Toronto.

American customer service in general is more effusive/friendly. Its a matter of taste whether one prefers that over something a bit more laid back.

• The number of major intersections of two wide multi-lane thoroughfares that had busy traffic, but simply a four-way stop and no traffic light was a shock. I think 90% of those that I passed through would have a traffic light in Toronto. When on foot, the drivers seemed very courteous to stop and wait for you to walk by, even waiving for you to go first. I wonder if Vision Zero's traffic lights everywhere has actually created more dangerous behaviour from both drivers and pedestrians, with "traffic light waiting rage" causing more collisions, the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.

There is no question Toronto has too many traffic lights............not a few too many, WAY too many.

Its bad for pedestrian safety, annoying to pedestrians and cyclists and delays transit as much as it does drivers.

 

[evandyk]

• The number of major intersections of two wide multi-lane thoroughfares that had busy traffic, but simply a four-way stop and no traffic light was a shock. I think 90% of those that I passed through would have a traffic light in Toronto. When on foot, the drivers seemed very courteous to stop and wait for you to walk by, even waiving for you to go first. I wonder if Vision Zero's traffic lights everywhere has actually created more dangerous behaviour from both drivers and pedestrians, with "traffic light waiting rage" causing more collisions, the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.

I was in Philadelphia over the summer with my five year old and also found their drivers to be a lot more courteous to pedestrians than Toronto drivers. Toronto drivers constantly inch out and indicate that they expect pedestrians to stop and wait for them to make their turn or go through the intersection. It's really annoying.