Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[DtTO]

Could the GDP and TTC/CTA numbers be any more false? I corrected them on the GDP in the comments (I doubt they'll change it), but I didn't even bother with the transit.

 

[Torontovibe]

Whoops, sorry I posted in the wrong thread and now it won't let me delete it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Come on, Adma. Surely you can recognize the difference between satire and ridicule.


I don't think he understands the difference in metro area measurement between Canada and the US. Nor does the Canadian paper he's quoting.


Great. Why write an article about it?


Yes, Toronto has no donut shops besides Tim Horton's. This guy's a clown.


Not like we have Mies Van Der Rohe's biggest complex or anything. The CN Tower is just a TV antenna? This is coming from the city with a suburban mall circus on their waterfront.



Now, normally, I would consider this to be satire, but the following proves that it is intended to be taken at face value:




Can he have any more of an inferiority complex? I bet he wishes Chicago could have the growth that Toronto is experiencing, but is too arrogant to admit it. Instead, he writes this ignorant crap for other ignorant people to see.

The following is even more ignorant, especially for someone who has supposedly spent some time here:


Incidentally, there is a song called "5am in Toronto" playing on the radio now. Then again, I wouldn't expect someone that ignorant to listen to any voice beside his own.

Please. Are we all supposed to be mad at one guy? Out of 2.6 million? Because it sure seems like your looking for a reason to be.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Oh, now the Globe is playing the game too:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/chicago-v-toronto-by-the-numbers/article9564290/

Looks like they cocked up the GDP numbers, comparing a much larger Chicagoland number to the GTA, rather than the smaller Metro Chicago area, or the larger Golden Horseshoe area.

But here's the shocking one, if correct.



Good grief. $10,000 for a house? For a lot? The small piece of land next to my house that is only big enough to park a car on, but is landlocked, and you couldn't actually go anywhere ... is worth $20,000.

And that's a neighbourhood average?

Wow ...

Would you pay 10 for engelwood? or 400k for Scarborough? I wouldn't

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Something I found interesting is that Chicago has 1.16 Million overseas toursits, compared to Toronto's 1.4 millon.

Surprising considering that most agree that Chicago has greater international recognition.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Something I found interesting is that Chicago has 1.16 Million overseas toursits, compared to Toronto's 1.4 millon.

Surprising considering that most agree that Chicago has greater international recognition.

I think that's more media. We were better to live(as you have mentioned before), so people want to check it out. Plus Toronto has more international destinations, more then NYC or Chicago. I think we are right behind London and Frankfurt.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Something I found interesting is that Chicago has 1.16 Million overseas toursits, compared to Toronto's 1.4 millon.

Surprising considering that most agree that Chicago has greater international recognition.

I could be stereotyping, but I think that more overseas tourists to Toronto are of the "I came here to see my relatives" type of tourist and Chicago's are more of the "I want to see Chicago" type of tourist.

 

[adma]

I could be stereotyping, but I think that more overseas tourists to Toronto are of the "I came here to see my relatives" type of tourist and Chicago's are more of the "I want to see Chicago" type of tourist.

*Exactly*. (And actually, from an urbanistic standpoint, that isn't a half-bad kind of tourist/visitor to have--in practice, they're more prone to an honorary-local "naturalizing", whereas the purer tourist types are gawkers who rarely stray beyond a set itinerary.)

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

*Exactly*. (And actually, from an urbanistic standpoint, that isn't a half-bad kind of tourist/visitor to have--in practice, they're more prone to an honorary-local "naturalizing", whereas the purer tourist types are gawkers who rarely stray beyond a set itinerary.)

Good call. There are many great neighbourhoods on the north side of Chi City, but people never leave downtown. In Toronto they come to where their family is. They see that neighbourhood, in old city, North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough etc.

 

[Memph]

Toronto's MSA would actually just be the GTA + Hamilton + Dufferin + Kawartha Lakes since US MSAs are mostly based on commuting patterns, so about 6.7 million by 2011 census numbers. The amount of commuting going on between Waterloo (or Niagara) Region and Toronto is actually significantly below even the CSA requirements.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Good call. There are many great neighbourhoods on the north side of Chi City, but people never leave downtown. In Toronto they come to where their family is. They see that neighbourhood, in old city, North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough etc.

I have to agree with you guys. Especially since so many Torontonians are foreign born. It makes sense that many would come to visit. I myself have had family visit on two different occasions in the past year.

It's too bad that there aren't stats on whether or not people overseas are visiting for family, business or tourism. It would be a great quantitative measure of which city has greater cultural recognition around the world.

 

[Hipster Duck]

*Exactly*. (And actually, from an urbanistic standpoint, that isn't a half-bad kind of tourist/visitor to have--in practice, they're more prone to an honorary-local "naturalizing", whereas the purer tourist types are gawkers who rarely stray beyond a set itinerary.)

That's hard to prove.

What's easier to prove - and also, ultimately, better for us - is whether tourists to Chicago, who don't wind up staying with relatives, spend money on hotels, restaurants and attractions. This might not be the best arbiter of the amount of urban exploration that's happening, but it's a pretty good indicator of how much tourists are pumping money into our economy.

 

[adma]

That's hard to prove.

Well, I know what you mean by the skepticism; after all, in practice, the "come to see relatives" types can wind up at least as clueless if not more so than "regular" tourists, esp. if said relatives are far from the core and themselves a little clueless re the sightseeing part.

Sort of like: I have relatives in the Buffalo area, and I know relatives who've visited said relatives in the Buffalo area, and they--locals and visitors alike--weren't the sort who'd have a freaking clue about Albright-Knox or the Darwin D. Martin house or whatever else. (IOW if I were the visiting relative, I'd either run rings around my supposedly "naturalized" hosts w/my knowledge and curiosity, or I'd go bonkers from the isolation.)

 

[Torontovibe]

Reading crap like this in the Toronto Sun really pisses me off. Isn't it bad enough that we always have to deal with putdowns and misinformation from Toronto haters in TROC but when you hear these lies from a "newspaper" in your own city, it's just pathetic.

Anybody want to take a guess who wrote this misleading crap?


" I am forever amazed whenever I go down to (my now second home in) Delray Beach that a city with 2% the population of Toronto can have such an exciting vibe.

There, the action on the main drag continues well into the night while in prissy, bland Toronto, we roll up our sidewalks by 11 p.m."


So a boring, suburban Florida town of 60,000 has livelier streets than "prissy" Toronto? What a joke! I will be so glad to see the Toronto Sun go out of business. (hopefully sooner, than later)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's hard to prove.

What's easier to prove - and also, ultimately, better for us - is whether tourists to Chicago, who don't wind up staying with relatives, spend money on hotels, restaurants and attractions. This might not be the best arbiter of the amount of urban exploration that's happening, but it's a pretty good indicator of how much tourists are pumping money into our economy.

Data is a few years old, but here are the top 10 hotel occupancy rates in North America. Chicago hasn't even made it on the top 10.

Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/01/27/toronto_posts_record_year_in_tourism.html