Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[Tewder]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steinb...anada-toronto-quietly-crows-over-chicago.html

Pretty harsh, though I find it hard to disagree with much of it...

That was a pretty hilarious bitch slap to Toronto. I hate it but it made me laugh. The thing is the more we protest this sort of thing the sillier and more provincial we appear to be. We're missing the swag. I mean, the only thing that makes America great is the fact that they insist it is. Come on Hogtown, you gotta bitch slap back bitches!

 

[vatche]

I just read the article. To be honest it's more insulting than funny. Nothing is fun about the article. He insults the city, the architecture, the food, the weather.

 

[old boy]

I just read the article. To be honest it's more insulting than funny. Nothing is fun about the article. He insults the city, the architecture, the food, the weather.

Sounds like he's taking Toronto seriously. I mean, slagging erstwhile competitors is a time-honoured passtime, - Montreal's been doing it successfully to Toronto for a long time.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Harvard? MIT? I'd like to know the % of people in those cities that have a college education much-less one from an Ivy League institution. Canada's post secondary system is open to a much wider demographic than those south of the border, and we're a better society for it. The amount of university graduates we have here is more valuable to our society than Harvard or MIT could ever possibly be. Toronto is rich in the most valuable resource you can find, knowledge. And it's only a matter of time before the market responds.

Median household income:
Toronto: $68,110
Chicago: $47,371
Boston: $51,739

Don't we have more tourists than either of those city's as well?

LOL. Some posters here are so delusional with their acts of city "fanboyism," it makes me laugh. Yes, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, LA, and Boston are all universally better than Toronto in every way. You keep telling yourselves that

I've lived in Chicago and I think people are incredibly delusional because of what they saw in their 3 day weekend getaway. Chicago is in no way comparable to Toronto on many many levels. For one, the population is incredibly divided. There's no synergy whatsoever. The latinos stay in their own areas, blacks stay in their areas, etc etc. There is nothing truly multicultural. Loop/River North/North Loop/Lincoln Park/Lake View are probably close to 100% white. Rogers Park area has some asians because of university residence, but from there on North all the way to Evanston is again almost 100% white and almost completely dead, in terms of attractions (A small stretch of Lincoln Park, near LSD is a small exception). The "hip" areas are full of urban decay (supposedly being "gentrified") in Logan Square, and further North along the I90 corridor. Step one foot south of Division, and you're asking to get shot, even in broad daylight.

Another thing that's really laughable here is praising Chicago's waterfront. Are people being sarcastic?

Oh yeah, we should definitely be trying to emulate this...

The income comparisons are another laughable statistic. Toronto's PPP actually surpassed Chicago's in 2011, and as in Jaye's comment, our household income is much higher than theirs. This becomes apparent for anyone who has actually lived in Chicago. Everyone outside of Streeterville is poor by Toronto standards.

The last thing that I wanted to mention that no one else has is that Chicago is a very narrow city (the safe, urban area, that is). To go from South Loop to Rogers Park, you have to cover a huge distance. Toronto extends away from the lake as far as it does along the lake (not the downtown, but the "urban" area), which makes things a lot closer to each other. For example, if both cities had urban areas of 50sq km, Toronto would be 5*10, while Chicago might be 25*2, with the 25 being the distance along the lake.

So you replace the fanyboyism of other cities with that of Toronto. Our PPP? What about the entire GDP, it is not the same size as detroit? And you know the best part about the dangerous areas in Chicago? You don't have to go there. Much like I bet you never go to much of Scarborough or Parkdale. To be honest the only city I take from this list is LA. Chicago has to many social problems for me. Having said that, Toronto has a lot of atheistic problems and a pourous transit system. I would still take NYC over both.

 

[Tewder]

I just read the article. To be honest it's more insulting than funny. Nothing is fun about the article. He insults the city, the architecture, the food, the weather.

It's an opinion only, and one meant to push buttons right? I mean, somebody in Chicago is going to criticize Toronto's weather?...

The issue is he paints Torontonians as bland, parochial, humourless and irritatingly apologetic... and most of the reactions to the article I've seen (here and elsewhere) really only serve to prove his point. Good grief, laugh and strike back just as outrageously, I say!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Why bother to even strike back - they know where they stand, and they also know the trajectory of their city. Nuff said. Besides, the real competitors we should be worried about isn't Chicago - it's Shanghai, Mumbai, etc.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

While there are some similarities currently between size and setting between the two cities ...

... the big difference is Toronto is on the way up, and Chicago is on the way down (or is at least in a huge trough). Chicago was once a greater city than Toronto has ever been, leaving behind some fantastic archaeological (some might say architectural) remnants. But the vast age differences, and the very undense sprawl in Chicago beyond the city limits itself, make for some very different places.

I can see the merit to comparing to cities that are growing, such as LA or Atlanta. There's some similarities there, and differences.

In many ways though, some of the best comparisons will be to Montreal and Vancouver.

 

[bleu]

In many ways though, some of the best comparisons will be to Montreal and Vancouver.

You mean Montreal is on an upward trajectory, where restaurants aren't allowed to say "pasta" on the menu?
Vancouver is simply too small and insignificant to compare with Toronto in any meaningful way. It is the 28th metro area in North America, although size is not everthing, it is more comparable to San Diego and Seattle than a much big animal like Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

http://www.blogto.com/city/2013/03/the_chicago_sun-times_takes_a_dump_on_toronto/#comments

89 comments on the sun times thing. come on.

 

[nfitz]

You mean Montreal is on an upward trajectory, where restaurants aren't allowed to say "pasta" on the menu?

I don't see how that issue is related to anything in this thread.

Vancouver is simply too small and insignificant to compare with Toronto in any meaningful way.

Ah, but what if you take the first derivative. At least you get a positive number, like Toronto, compared to a negative number like Chicago!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't see how that issue is related to anything in this thread.

Ah, but what if you take the first derivative. At least you get a positive number, like Toronto, compared to a negative number like Chicago!

I agree you about the derivatives

 

[gabe]

Yep. Toronto is edgier, hipper, better dressed, more cosmopolitan and quirky than Chicago or Boston by far. The people are better looking, more open minded and exposed to outside influences. It's just a much more interesting and dynamic city. It's a truly worldly city in a way that Chicago simply is not.

Compared to NYC, Boston and even Chicago, the people in Toronto are A LOT more friendly. When i have friends visit from overseas or when i meet tourists or when i'm in the states talking to Americans who have been here, i often hear them say "Toronto is one of the most friendliest big cities I've ever been to" NYC and Boston are famous for their cold and snobbish people. You'll really notice how friendly people in Toronto are, after visiting those big American cities and Montreal!

 

[DtTO]

So you replace the fanyboyism of other cities with that of Toronto.

Funny. This is the best retort you could come up with?

Our PPP? What about the entire GDP, it is not the same size as detroit?

Of course. If you include an area with only 5 million people in it. The economy of the Golden Horseshoe is slightly larger than Chicagoland, even though Chicagoland has about 500-750k more people.

And you know the best part about the dangerous areas in Chicago? You don't have to go there.

Too bad I *did* have to go there, and almost daily, too. I lived in Hyde Park. That isn't some dangerous slum, its where the U of C is located, and yet there would be a few murders there daily. I had a friend who lived right next to Montrose Park, which is one of the best in Chicago, and she eventually had to move north out of the city to Evanston (suburbs) due to the increasing crime rate, especially with the government allowing more and more Section 8 housing into these once "nice" areas. Incidentally, this same behaviour permanently damaged Boston and many other rust belt cities with the forced school quotas and bussing laws.

Chicago has to many social problems for me. Having said that, Toronto has a lot of atheistic problems and a pourous transit system.

So you go on a mini rant about how the dangerous areas of Chicago aren't a big deal, and go on to say that you wouldn't live there? Great. As for transit systems, I'd gladly take the TTC over the pile of dump knowns as the CTA.

By the way, in saying all this, I am not trying to put down Chicago. In fact, it's my third favourite city in North America after Toronto, and Vancouver. Chicago is an amazing city, but compared to Toronto? I'm sorry, it just comes up short.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steinb...anada-toronto-quietly-crows-over-chicago.html

Pretty harsh, though I find it hard to disagree with much of it...

This article is such a joke. People are calling Toronto's reaction to this population thing "provincial"? Did you guys read this? It reeks of denial, ignorance, and outright lies. It almost seems to me like he knows Toronto is better, but just doesn't want the readers thinking it. Talk about inferiority complex...

 

[OttoSchloss]

I think articles like that do strike a nerve, if only because in Canada, Torontonians are used to getting dumped on. When an American does (and frankly who have been better champions of our city than Americans), it tends to cut. The other thing is, and maybe because of our own self-absorption, Torontonians don't do a lot of dumping on other cities at all. I remember visiting an inn in New England, met some Montrealers when someone mentioned where I was from their reaction was "Oh Toronto is so boring!", my initial reaction wasn't to maybe hold the mirror up to them and let them know that their delusions about the excitement of their own city were for the most part exactly that, delusions but instead a shrug and then a "you're rude". Perhaps it's the decency thing that Torontonians are bred with but it didn't cross my mind to say, well ya know, Montreal isn't all that and frankly as far as excitement goes, it's a few notches down comparably. Another was a visit to the city last year where I was informed that Toronto was just a suburb of the U.S.A. It mad me think, was there ever a time when visitors here are given the same treatment. Do we say thinks like "oh you're from ....you're so quaint and provincial". Nope. We can't be bothered. But other Canadians can be bothered and we're used to that. So it rubs when Americans do it, if only because we tend to come to these knife fights like gentlemen and expect to fight knives with fists.

I think Chicago is a glorious looking city. It just doesn't do it for me at all. Culturally it has a lot going for it and it has a real mythology to it. But and I get the sense that this a pretty common feeling there, it's not New York City. L.A. isn't either but L.A. is a continent away and is so different than NYC that it doesn't suffer from second city complex. It's almost 2nd Alpha, really.

 

[OttoSchloss]

Oh and I should mention that Chicago gets ripped a lot by its fellow country men. So I understand its own insecurities. And Canada is such an easy outlet for them.