Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not sure where everyone is getting these sub-$10B cost estimates. All recent summer games have been in the CAD$30-50B range. There's no magic trick that Toronto can use to cut that number by 2/3.

Not really:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Now of course, the accounting varies. In our case, would it make sense to say, put in RER or QQE extension into that? Or site formation costs for LDL/Don River? I think we need to be honest about what should and shouldn't be called costs, and what realistic revenues we can expect. It isn't a call for a blank cheque.

AoD

 

[P23]

Not sure where everyone is getting these sub-$10B cost estimates. All recent summer games have been in the CAD$30-50B range. There's no magic trick that Toronto can use to cut that number by 2/3.

The only countries that have spent more than $10B are Greece and China. Greece is widely regarded as a complete cock-up and China poured more money than necessary into theirs since they were trying to improve their public image. Russia did the same thing with the astronomical sum spent on their recent winter games. Personally I would expect a similar expense to the Sydney games since it's a very similar country, although I'm too lazy to figure out inflation and conversion from AUD.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You know online content is filled with advertising too right?

I haven't seen an online ad in years on my pc, phone and tablet, including on youtube.

 

[salsa]

Just because someone is pro-games doesn't equate to propaganda. Nice accusation though.

There are valid arguments to be made from both sides of the debate, but the hyperbole, misinformation and sensationalist drivel coming from certain anti-Olympic posters here does little to support their cause. Personally I am still undecided, but if this is the best we can expect from those posters then I think I know which side I will be on.

The UT crowd has a relatively nuanced understanding of civic machinery so hoping the debate can be fact-based and respectful.

Yes please.

 

[CodeMonkey]

They're already trying to tie in infrastructure spending to the 2024 bid, like they did with the Pan Am games, so if we lose this bid we can kiss the DRL, GO Electrification and every other transit project goodbye for another two decades.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Like I said four years ago...

So, the politicians all make their promises on infrastructure for the bid officials, all the while delaying or postponing any approved projects pending the bid. When the bid fails, all the projects get canceled, delayed or modified -leading to years of delay.

Politicians love the Olympic Bids, it gives them the opportunity to make bold promises that hinge on an unlikely event, and in the case the event comes to pass, they can then pressure other levels of government to pay for their promises.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Presumably, an Olympic bid would include venues not used for the Pan Ams - Air Canada Centre, the Convention Centre & Exhibition Centre - possibly even the Automotive Building come to mind (gymnastics, weightlifting, martial arts, fencing). Horsey things could stay in Caledon, rowing at Henley, presumably the canoe/kayak course in Welland is Olympics ready.

I think the Pan Ams show that we could do it and do it well. The bigger questions are: Do we want to do it and if so, who will pay for it, and how?

 

[animatronic]

Presumably, an Olympic bid would include venues not used for the Pan Ams - Air Canada Centre, the Convention Centre & Exhibition Centre - possibly even the Automotive Building come to mind (gymnastics, weightlifting, martial arts, fencing). Horsey things could stay in Caledon, rowing at Henley, presumably the canoe/kayak course in Welland is Olympics ready.

I think the Pan Ams show that we could do it and do it well. The bigger questions are: Do we want to do it and if so, who will pay for it, and how?

The stadium is still the biggest problem. You aren't going to get an 80k+ stadium these days for <$2B. Anyone proposing <$1B should be laughed out of the room. And after the games what do we do with 80,000 seats in the port lands? Even if half the seats are temporary you're going to end up with a massive white elephant taking up valuable land and/or a free stadium for whoever lands an NFL franchise. Replacing the SkyDome would solve the space problem but that comes with a host of other issues including a temporary home for the Jays during construction and a risk-filled compressed timeline. Realistically the only way it could make sense would be to build a new baseball stadium in the port lands and an Olympic-cum-NFL stadium on the site of the SkyDome. But that's a lot to take on without a football team and tight deadlines.

Besides, we've already built one overpriced stadium using public funds and passed it off to private interests at literally pennies on the dollar.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Yep, that's the biggest problem. But London and Atlanta may show the solution - build a smaller stadium that can be expanded temporarily for the Olympics.

Meanwile, someone tell Charles and Camilla to keep July 2024 open.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The stadium is still the biggest problem. You aren't going to get an 80k+ stadium these days for <$2B. Anyone proposing <$1B should be laughed out of the room.

The London Olympic Stadium is approx. 1B Cdn - UK costs, remember. I would think we should sell Lamport Stadium to help pay for that - it's very limited as a venue, plus that piece of land has got to worth quite a bit soon enough.

Yep, that's the biggest problem. But London and Atlanta may show the solution - build a smaller stadium that can be expanded temporarily for the Olympics.

And in the case of London they ended up keeping 60K of the seats instead of the original 20K.

AoD

 

[christiesplits]

The stadium is still the biggest problem. You aren't going to get an 80k+ stadium these days for <$2B. Anyone proposing <$1B should be laughed out of the room.

Some NFL stadiums have been built below 1 billion:

Houston's NRG Stadium: $462 million
Seattle's CenturyLink Field: $564 billion
Indiana's Lucas Oil Stadium: $789 million

 

[animatronic]

Some NFL stadiums have been built below 1 billion:

Houston's NRG Stadium: $462 million
Seattle's CenturyLink Field: $564 billion
Indiana's Lucas Oil Stadium: $789 million

Lucas Oil is only 62k seats, and that $789m is over CAD$1b. Met Life stadium seats 80k and cost CAD$2.25B. If anything, NFL stadiums under-state the cost because the field is tiny compared to a 400m track.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Lucas Oil is only 62k seats, and that $789m is over CAD$1b. Met Life stadium seats 80k and cost CAD$2.25B. If anything, NFL stadiums under-state the cost because the field is tiny compared to a 400m track.

MetLife is a gold-plated stadium with no thought to economy (also see the New Yankee Stadium, in said category). Not exactly the kind of model to replicate.

AoD

 

[sixrings]

If somehow getting the olympics gets us a DRL by 2024 and a NFL team by 2024 I am ALL IN.

 

[animatronic]

MetLife is a gold-plated stadium with no thought to economy (also see the New Yankee Stadium, in said category). Not exactly the kind of model to replicate.

AoD

"gold-plated" = "Olympic standard"