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notyouagain
Guest
This happened again yesterday although the line was worse because everybody was trying to get home early for Halloween.
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This happened again yesterday although the line was worse because everybody was trying to get home early for Halloween.
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MarcG
Guest
People have to stop getting complacent and have to start demanding some accountability. The entire management infrastructure is damaged: it's entirely geared towards providing good photo-ops for the premier and mayor and that is apparently the only measure of success it has.
What is the purpose of those time keepers anyway ? Are they effective ? Where are the on-time figures for streetcars ? I have never seen them.
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MarcG
Guest
The US moved to privatize these types of services in the 1980s and 1990s. I wouldn't say that that is an option for Toronto.
A revised model might be to keep these services public, but to de-politicize them, so that the politician is removed as the individual being serviced, and replaced with the TTC user.
For anyone who cries 'funding' to this suggestion, we offer the only other alternative presented - privatization and open competition.
The fact is that these services are fundamentally mismanaged, and the 'funding' cry shouldn't wash after ten years or so.
Let's get volunteers helping out if funding is a problem. Let's think outside the box.
A revised model might be to keep these services public, but to de-politicize them, so that the politician is removed as the individual being serviced, and replaced with the TTC user.
For anyone who cries 'funding' to this suggestion, we offer the only other alternative presented - privatization and open competition.
The fact is that these services are fundamentally mismanaged, and the 'funding' cry shouldn't wash after ten years or so.
Let's get volunteers helping out if funding is a problem. Let's think outside the box.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
I'm confused on what he meant by 4 "time-keepers". If you meant route supervisors, I doubt there were 4 on King at the same time, but they are spread out along the whole system and are very important to try to keep the surface system running reliably. They are more atuned to the route running situation and can divert, short turn, etc. to get the route back on a regular schedule. They also report back every delay, route situation, crowding situation back to transit control, who subsequently passes it along to Service Planning, who goes through these reports and tries to make service adjustments if delays aren't because of something uncontrollable.
The other "time-keepers" on King, I assume, are the TTC staff that stand at the stops at King and St. Andrew stations to allow boarding via the rear door. This obviously, is to speed up boarding, so you don't have a backup of streetcars because everyone has to go through the front door.
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MarcG
Guest
It sounds like a job for a transponder.
ITcomputer
Active Member
Sorry this is the TTC, no technology invented after 1970, please.
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
TTC Token Debacle: 2007
Everyone: I read this thread and it reminded me of NYCTA's token sales before a looming fare increase and their threats - to change the token to thwart hoarders. When you look back at NYCT's recent token changes-in 1970,1980,the mid 80s to the bullseye token and then the 90s "5 Boro" token-which would be their last. The TTC in comparison just spent megabucks producing new tokens because of the counterfeiting problem due to the fact that tokens were basically the same as from the 1950s. I remember that riders found ways to beat the system by using similar coins-the one that stick out to me were the Connecticut Turnpike tokens that were the same size and weight as the NYCT early 80s tokens-costing about 15 cents each while the NYCT fare was 60,75 and then 90 cents afterward they were replaced with the Bullseye token. As many know,NYCT did not go gung-ho on the Metrocard until the mid to late 90s-allowing free transfers and unlimited ride passes for the first time in NYC. I find it interesting that the TTC has always sold both tickets and tokens to occasional riders instead of just one type. Metropasses are much better for any regular rider-the more you ride the more you save! I do not think that TTC will eliminate tokens for the foreseeable future-they can probably be used for an infinite number of times-as they are coins. My thoughts here-LI MIKE
Everyone: I read this thread and it reminded me of NYCTA's token sales before a looming fare increase and their threats - to change the token to thwart hoarders. When you look back at NYCT's recent token changes-in 1970,1980,the mid 80s to the bullseye token and then the 90s "5 Boro" token-which would be their last. The TTC in comparison just spent megabucks producing new tokens because of the counterfeiting problem due to the fact that tokens were basically the same as from the 1950s. I remember that riders found ways to beat the system by using similar coins-the one that stick out to me were the Connecticut Turnpike tokens that were the same size and weight as the NYCT early 80s tokens-costing about 15 cents each while the NYCT fare was 60,75 and then 90 cents afterward they were replaced with the Bullseye token. As many know,NYCT did not go gung-ho on the Metrocard until the mid to late 90s-allowing free transfers and unlimited ride passes for the first time in NYC. I find it interesting that the TTC has always sold both tickets and tokens to occasional riders instead of just one type. Metropasses are much better for any regular rider-the more you ride the more you save! I do not think that TTC will eliminate tokens for the foreseeable future-they can probably be used for an infinite number of times-as they are coins. My thoughts here-LI MIKE
p5connex
Active Member
sorry then you were corrected...
I won't believe anything until the money starts flowing. As an example and not necessarily public transit, look what happened when all levels of government said they were going to be contribute $20 billion for the waterfront renewal? To date, less than $600 million has actually gone towards the cause. So, that said, I think before you make a comment like that, lets wait and see what actually happens in the next year(s)- then either I will eat my words or you will.
Deal?
p5
passthedutchie
New Member
The TTC isn't AGAINST the smart card system. Rather, it is against spending over $175-million in retrofitting over 1,800 buses, 200 streetcars, and 65 subway stations with it. The TTC would love to install it, it's just the money is needed in more pressing places or on other initiatives that will improve service and bring in more riders than a card to replace a fare system that generally is working fine.
What can $175-million buy?
-about 350 buses ($500,000 each)
-about 90 streetcars (~$2-million each)
-3 St. Clair streetcar right-of-ways (though this can be argued against
-and so on...
So when you're on the commission, and you have $175-million to spend, which would you rather spend it on?
How does the union feel about Smart Cards? I think it's pretty safe to say that they are just as much opposed to it if not more. I've seen many unions keep away technologies that improve businesses, and I smell another.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
I won't believe anything until the money starts flowing. As an example and not necessarily public transit, look what happened when all levels of government said they were going to be contribute $20 billion for the waterfront renewal? To date, less than $600 million has actually gone towards the cause. So, that said, I think before you make a comment like that, lets wait and see what actually happens in the next year(s)- then either I will eat my words or you will.
Deal?
p5
Uh, sorry, no. You should have read the waterfront agreement. Most of that "$20 billion" was planned private sector investment. The governments committed to $1.5 billion, which is being spent and is only slowed by the city's glacial pace at getting projects like the new Union subway platform going.
I know hyper-cynicism is extremely fashionable, but you should read how MoveOntario works. All that money will be borrowed, and put into a fund which will be dedicated to transit projects. The money will be there. Do I think it will be spent on the exact projects they listed? No. Do I think that it will take a while to spend $12 billion in provincial money (plus a likely federal contribution)? Yes. Will you be complaining in five years that they've "only" spent $4 billion? Almost certainly. Unfortunately message boards like these make people want everything to happen right now. If they don't spend all that money in a year, nothing's happening.
299 bloor call control.
Senior Member
I don't see the union being opposed to the smart card at all. Widespread use would eliminate fare disputes, improving operator safety. Multidoor loading would make their jobs easier in keeping their trips on time. The only jobs it would affect would be on the management side (non-unionized) in the finance department really.
And the unionized folks would have toys to play with as they are installing the units on all the vehicles/stations, etc.
lordmandeep
Banned
what happens to all those guys on chairs sitting at stations???
dosbox
New Member
London Underground uses smart cards and still staff their kiosks with warm bodies.
lordmandeep
Banned
agreed, but maybe no need for so many per station then??
CDL.TO
Moderator
Many less-busy tube stations are unstaffed during slow periods. The fare gates are left open during these times, but fare evasion is still rare because you need a ticket to exit at the other end of your journey (unless you happen to be heading to another quiet station).
The big thing that smart cards and driverless trains has done for London Transport is getting staff out of chairs and on their feet moving around the system assisting travellers, checking tickets, and directing crowds.
The big thing that smart cards and driverless trains has done for London Transport is getting staff out of chairs and on their feet moving around the system assisting travellers, checking tickets, and directing crowds.