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Token Debacle

The TTC isn't AGAINST the smart card system. Rather, it is against spending over $175-million in retrofitting over 1,800 buses, 200 streetcars, and 65 subway stations with it. The TTC would love to install it, it's just the money is needed in more pressing places or on other initiatives that will improve service and bring in more riders than a card to replace a fare system that generally is working fine.

What can $175-million buy?
-about 350 buses ($500,000 each)
-about 90 streetcars (~$2-million each)
-3 St. Clair streetcar right-of-ways (though this can be argued against ;))
-and so on...

So when you're on the commission, and you have $175-million to spend, which would you rather spend it on?
 
The province could fund it. They're considering taking over the TTC, how convenient. Even if they do not, there's Transit City and numerous capital projects already committed to. Now, let's get the card or set some money aside every year for it. Speaking of Transit City, wouldn't it important to have the card system considering the trains are long and are designed to have people enter at different doors?
 
299 bloor, you're completely right. The catch is that the TTC could have easily gotten the province to fund it. The context is not those projects you've mentioned, but the over $6 billion in streetcars alone that the province has committed to funding. $175 million is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The TTC is hostile to the idea of a smart card, and I've spoken to many who will go on about how the system we have now is "fine."
 
unimaginative:

299 bloor, you're completely right. The catch is that the TTC could have easily gotten the province to fund it. The context is not those projects you've mentioned, but the over $6 billion in streetcars alone that the province has committed to funding. $175 million is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The TTC is hostile to the idea of a smart card, and I've spoken to many who will go on about how the system we have now is "fine."
Click to expand...

The province has not committed to funding anything in the Transit City plan - just because it was featured in a provincial news announcement (right before the election, at that) doesn't meant the agreements are in place for money to flow.

Besides, when/if money was to flow, I have no doubt the provincial priority of having a smart card system will be funded regardless of whether TTC wanted it or not.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
unimaginative:
The province has not committed to funding anything in the Transit City plan - just because it was featured in a provincial news announcement (right before the election, at that) doesn't meant the agreements are in place for money to flow.
Click to expand...

That's still a committment. Anyway, there's no question that the MoveOntario2020 fund will be implemented, so we can plan based on that assumption.

Besides, when/if money was to flow, I have no doubt the provincial priority of having a smart card system will be funded regardless of whether TTC wanted it or not.
Click to expand...

I hope so!
 
debacle is the right word. The ttc seems incapable of anticipating and planning for the fare hike even though the consequences are entirely predicable since it happens with every fare increase. Yesterday at Dundas statation in the evening rush hour is a good example. Since most patrons cannot get their hands on tokens, they cannot use the automated turnstyles even if they have tickets. So they have to wait in line at the manned ticket booth behind people needing to but tickets. How many ticket collectors were on duty? ONE. The line just to deposit a ticket was insane. I waited for five minutes and then I thought "Fuck it". My one year old son is waiting for me at home and I will not allow the TTC to once again deprive me of my time with my family. The disabled entrance was open and I went through. Fuck you TTC. I'm looking for long term parking downtown.
 
The swearing isn't really necessary now is it? It's frustrating, but that's the way it goes. It's just like at Bloor-Yonge Station, where an automated Metropass machine is sitting right by both collector booths, but people still insist on joining the lineup to buy their Metropass. That I've never understood.
During most times I've been at Dundas Station, there is usually a spare ticket taker. And if there is a huge lineup, I'm not adverse to taking the accessible gate, just drop a ticket into the box on the way out, just to avoid a guilty conscience of taking a free ride. But using this as an excuse to not pay, or not take the TTC anymore is absurd over something the TTC shouldn't do anything to condone (i.e. hoarding of tokens).
 
The condescension isn't really necessary now is it? Did you not read my post? My problem with the TTC is their failure to anticipate this problem by having sufficient staff on hand. This is happening with such frequency that I have to conclude that managment couldn't care less about its customers. I don't blame the TTC for the hoarding although why they need so much lag time between making the decision and implementing the fare increase is a mystery to me.
 
I did not mean to sound condescending, so I'm sorry if it came across that way, but the vulgarity wasn't necessary.
Like I said, they typically DO have people staffed at the gate at Dundas, you probably went when they were on a break, or the odd chance it wasn't staffed. I seldom go through that gate without seeing an extra guy there. Most of these guys who staff the extra gates are off on disability or on writeups anyway, so it also could be a matter of a healthy operator force. ;)

Either way, the decision to increase fares was made in September. First and foremost, new tickets need to be printed, and a 1 1/2 month lead time in getting them done isn't bad. Add on to that the need to distribute these tickets to every single ticket vendor in the city is a daunting task as very seldom does every vendor have to be restocked at the same time. Secondly, since all Metropasses and Weekly Passes have to have the price printed on it, it could be assumed that the October passes were already in production by the time the fare increase was voted on, thus, they had to push to the November batch of Metropasses for the new price. It's also fairness... it's not really fair to raise the fare in a meeting and have it implemented a week later. You gotta give everyone a chance to get ready for it, and one of the ways people get ready for it is by hoarding tokens. In other means (for example's sake) it means daycares that use tickets to take kids out on trips can have enough time to get new tickets and cost them right in their own budgets. It's complex and far beyond just the waiting in line. Frustrating, yes, I agree, but c'est la vie.
 
As is the case in most civilised cities, you shouldn't have to depend on a person to enter a subway system. Let's get some friggin' token/weekly pass/metropass vending machines already!

vending_machine.jpg
 
That's NOT just the way it goes.

The business world has become much more customer focussed over the last 20 years or so. The TTC remains 30 years behind the times and we're expected to accept it, because ... ?

It's just like at Bloor-Yonge Station, where an automated Metropass machine is sitting right by both collector booths, but people still insist on joining the lineup to buy their Metropass.
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous. Those machines are 'out of service' most of the time, and they don't currently take $20 bills, and they never take $5 bills.

Even Rogers Cable has started improving their customer service lately, but the TTC still acts like the sluggish monopoly they are.

The money quoted to refit the entrance systems, would pay itself back very quickly.

The TTC has too much "can't" right now.
 
With an electronic fare system, hoarding tokens would be a thing of the past, and there would be no ticket printing. Some level of government should take the initiative and make this happen already. It would help out so many people.
 
The token issue is just a symptom of a much larger problem.

The system sees its users as a burden, rather than as patrons.

I think they should be required to publish independent customer satisfaction surveys. Eventually, they'd be shamed into improving them.
 
MarcG said:
It's ridiculous. Those machines are 'out of service' most of the time, and they don't currently take $20 bills, and they never take $5 bills.
Click to expand...


he was talking about the automated metropass machines, not the token dispensers that you're mentioning.
 
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