The Weather

[Mongo]

Everyone: How often does Toronto get significant hail storms and what is the largest size hail stones that have been noted or recorded?

<snip>

In my own memory the largest hail I have ever seen is quarter sized and I have also heard of storms that have so much small hail the ground becomes covered like there was a snowstorm and snow plows actually have to be called out to remove the dropped hail even though it does not last long because of warm ground temperatures...

The largest hail I personally went through was back in the mid 1970s in the town I grew up in, in northwestern Ontario. Our back lawn was covered in baseball- to softball-sized hailstones, almost all of which had numerous spines sticking out like a medieval mace-head, and the local paper had a photo the next day of a dinner-plate sized hailstone (round and flat, 11" in diameter).

At that time there was no Weather Channel or Internet, but if this had happened more recently, video of the hailstorm would have been all over the place.

 

[pman]

I've always believed that there are winners and losers in all cases of climate change. Warmer oceans may kill off coral, but grow more jellyfish.... Bad for the coral, fish and scuba, etc, but good for the jellies.

Canada stands to gain a great deal through a warmer global climate. There's a lot of negatives of course, but we always mention those, and ignore the real benefits to Canada, such as longer growing seasons, greater access to the north, Ontario's first year old ocean port In Hudsons Bay with the ability to ship cargo both to the Atlantic and Pacific.

You're right that there's never a balanced, honest discussion of the positives and negatives of climate change. It's socially unacceptable to start from the premise that global warming might actually have some benefits as well as costs. The discussion of the negatives alone also seems pretty biased. For example, the recent advisory report on the cost to Canada of climate change noted infrastructure investments we would need to make between now and 2070, and counted them as a cost. What the report didn't say but which I checked with the authors, was that the baseline for that cost was the assumption we wouldn't make any infrastructure investments absent climate change. Capital stock depreciates and needs to be replaced regardless of what happens to the climate, but the report's authors apparently needed a negative conclusion.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Has anyone on this board ever remembered a winter such as we just had? I asked my mom and without missing a beat she said "never". This past week is a whole other matter what with smashing records every day all over the province. Heck, it was 26C in Winnipeg on Wednesday! Anyone think we'll get a snow blast in April?

 

[whatever]

I hope not. Most of my perennials have come in over the last week, and an April snow would kill everything. I can live with it cooling down a bit, but no frost, please!

 

[khris]

I don't remember a winter like this at all. I quite liked it though!

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I'll take it too! My dog loves the snow though (typical Lab!).

I DON'T miss spring meltdowns

 

[kkgg7]

This isn't winter. 2-4cm of snow a half dozen times and then it warms up a day or so later and we're back to 2-10C for several days. How about a good, old fashioned, 40cm snowfall that actually sticks around for a while!

nobody likes old fashioned 40cm snowfall and -30C with windchill. Some say they do, but they really don't.
as to ski, it is not like when it snows a lot, you can actually snow in Toronto. Plus, when it is 25 outside in March, you can play basketball, tennis etc. who the hell will miss ski? Ski itself is invented for those who love sports but the weather doesn't allow them to have any.

 

[kkgg7]

I've always believed that there are winners and losers in all cases of climate change. Warmer oceans may kill off coral, but grow more jellyfish.... Bad for the coral, fish and scuba, etc, but good for the jellies.

Canada stands to gain a great deal through a warmer global climate. There's a lot of negatives of course, but we always mention those, and ignore the real benefits to Canada, such as longer growing seasons, greater access to the north, Ontario's first year old ocean port In Hudsons Bay with the ability to ship cargo both to the Atlantic and Pacific.

exactly!
Global warming, if real, definitely does a lot more good than bad to Canada, a LOT.
to the world, it is not really clear. both good and bad. For other individual countries, it is a different story.

 

[kkgg7]

Global Warming Models Are Wrong Again

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577291352882984274.html

GW is nothing but a theory. It is utilized by certain politicians for personal ambitions with the help of biased scientific research. Whoever firmly believes in its absolute validity is simply too brainwashed and has lost his own judgment (and some common sense).

 

[kkgg7]

The recent Canadian climate change adaptation study forecast a 2070 Toronto average temperature around 4 degrees warmer than current norms, 12 months a year, which about the average temperature in Philadelphia now. The current mild winter seems to be an indication of Toronto's future climate, at least if the models are accurate.

2070? why not 2020?
I do wish for the day when March has nothing to do the idea of "winter" in Toronto.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I use the term "climate change" and I see no doubt that it's really happening unless we're being fed fake science by thousands of Scientists and Climatologists who are studying and reporting on this phenomenon. I think the jury is still out whether it's due to human related activities, a natural occurrence or a combination of both but presuming it is real, in no way is it a good thing for anyone down the road.

 

[gabe]

Global Warming Models Are Wrong Again

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577291352882984274.html

GW is nothing but a theory. It is utilized by certain politicians for personal ambitions with the help of biased scientific research. Whoever firmly believes in its absolute validity is simply too brainwashed and has lost his own judgment (and some common sense).

The great thing about science is that it's true, whether or not you believe in it. Climate Change is real

 

[pman]

The great thing about science is that it's true, whether or not you believe in it. Climate Change is real

I agree. However, it doesn't follow that:

1. The costs of climate change will outweigh the benefits, and
2. The cost of mitigating climate change will outweigh the net cost of climate change

The apocalyptic futures scenarios the climate change industry presents seem to have more in common with the Book of Revelations than objective analysis. There's also the possibility that while the net effect of climate change may be bad for the world, it will actually be good for Canada. Certainly some of the posts here imply their authors find some benefit from the warmer winter we've just had.

 

[kkgg7]

I agree. However, it doesn't follow that:

1. The costs of climate change will outweigh the benefits, and
2. The cost of mitigating climate change will outweigh the net cost of climate change

The apocalyptic futures scenarios the climate change industry presents seem to have more in common with the Book of Revelations than objective analysis. There's also the possibility that while the net effect of climate change may be bad for the world, it will actually be good for Canada. Certainly some of the posts here imply their authors find some benefit from the warmer winter we've just had.

completely agree.
the existence of a change doesn't mean we need to do something to reverse it. climate change has both good and bad consequences, and so far "scientists" seem to have only focused on the bad. I wonder why.

Nor do we have any clue whether it is due to human activities, in which case, any measures we take won't help a bit. Mother nature is a lot more powerful than we think and men can never conquer nature.

Only stupid people will refuse to admit the warming trend is good for Canada. It is the truth yet "liberals" never talk about it as if it is a taboo. Canada can benefit so much if the average temperature is higher by 5C on average. Toronto will have New York's weather, and Montreal/Ottawa will probably have Toronto's. and imagine all those frigid land in the north.

yeah, sea level will rise and we will likely lose some land, which is mostly barren and useless to start with. In return, Canada will get probably 10% more arable/habitable land, isn't that fantastic?

 

[kkgg7]

but presuming it is real, in no way is it a good thing for anyone down the road.

how do you know? You are assuming whatever condition we have now is optimal, which is doubtable.