The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

[gweed123]

The subway connection is also something that really annoys me. The sidewalk connection was so much easier to get from Ryerson to the subway. I'd like to see some stats on how many people who walk through the doors of the main lobby are actually going someplace inside the building, or if they're just passing through to get to the subway.

 

[Tulse]

Every time I go to the theatre here I am amazed at how poorly laid out the space is, and how unwelcoming it is. There is no spatial sense, no organization to the building, and even the retail there is a hodgepodge. It's an unmitigated mess.

 

[Torontovibe]

I use to visit this place all the time while it was opening up. From day one I knew that the bottom floor was going to be a complete disaster. The reason is simple. Its basically a food court. It currently has a subway. But it use to have a Sushi Restaurant and a Cinebon. The problem was and is that there was absolutely zero seating to eat your food anywhere. As a result people simply went up stairs to the actual food court and used the basement as a nice hall way to the subway. You cant sell food without offering a place to eat it. Its really that simple.. From what I can tell the retail (futreshop, Shoppers, and Adidas has been extremely successful) I cant discredit a whole building based on a basement which even I (who is anything but a architect or interior designer) knew was flawed from the very beginning..

All that to say I would hope that HMV is bought out and on this site they extend 10 Dundas East but with another attraction on top.. Somewhere in the old Toronto Life Square threads there were pictures of Box malls in Asia that looked pretty cool with indoor ice rinks and stuff. I dunno if that would work. I would suggest a PLaydium type store but no one visits arcades anymore.. A bowling alley? Oh wait we just got one downtown? Anyways something interesting.

The original concept of this mall was an entertainment/amusement centre. It was supposed to have a bowling alley, Disney store, music hall of fame and be more of a tourist attraction. The only entertainment it has now, is the movie cinema. Other than that, it's just a really lousy mall. I hope the new owners make some big changes. Well, actually, I wish they would just tear it all down and redevelop the property. I'd like to see a cool hotel here. (W) I also want to see more of a festive vibe, with entertainment and a major attraction.

 

[MetroMan]

It's all nice to wish and dream to have this building demolished and replaced but common people, try to be realistic. The property managing firm that owns this are in business to make money. No dispute there. Demolishing a profitable building to start from scratch would put them out of business for at least 2 to 3 years and who knows if the tenants would come back.

That's just the business reality. Next you have the legal reality: AMC has a long term lease here. They didn't spend dozens of millions of dollars to build a modern multiplex theatre to have it demolished and be out of business for a few years. Who's going to pay to cancel their lease, pay for the cost of building the current theatres which most likely still haven't been paid off, pay for lost business during reconstruction and then pay to rebuild the theatres?

AMC is merely one tenant. You have multiple tenants who spent a lot of money to design and build their stores and many of them are doing quite well. Extreme Fitness is making a killing here. Jack Astors is always packed. This is FutureShop's busiest location.

This building is here to stay, at least for the next 20 years. The only thing that can be done is to fix it up using the existing structure, without displacing existing principle tenants.

 

[JasonParis]

I'm not really sure what's wrong with it to be honest. Yea we complain about the architecture and lack of quality - but the majority don't care about that - so there are other issues at play. The bottom floor is extremely busy but it must be the type of traffic, everyone is just walking through.

Other issues are certainly at play, but even if one isn't aware of why they don't like a space, it can still have a lot to do with quality and architecture. They just think they "don't like it" basically.

It's all nice to wish and dream to have this building demolished and replaced but common people, try to be realistic. The property managing firm that owns this are in business to make money. No dispute there. Demolishing a profitable building to start from scratch would put them out of business for at least 2 to 3 years and who knows if the tenants would come back.

Agreed. The building isn't going anywhere. I'd guess it's fairly flexibile though so your idea of moving Adidas probably has some realistic merit. The subway-level floor should probably be just a Shopper's Drug Mart and one other large tenant. The small "food" stores concept just doesn't work down there.

I often thought a gigantic LCBO would be ripe for 10 Dundas E, especially as their Atrium on Bay location is still small and cramped. However, I don't know if/where that would be possible now.

 

[Dan416]

I've always liked MetroMan's idea of moving the lobby to where Adidas is and vice versa.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Moving the LCBO in the Atrium on Bay to the larger space in the basement of 10 Dundas East is a winner of an idea.

 

[adma]

In general, I've sort of wondered in the past whether an Asian-style kiosk-retail "Pacific Mall-ing" of 10 Dundas was a viable prospect...

 

[MetroMan]

I've always liked MetroMan's idea of moving the lobby to where Adidas is and vice versa.

I wish I had some CAD skills so that I could put out a drawing of my idea.

Essentially, the major problems with this building are a very confusing traffic flow and the complete lack of details in its interior design.

The existing lobby is very large but most of the area is unused. The major tentant, AMC's ticket windows are hidden behind the escalators and the rest of the area is dead space.

If the lobby were moved to Yonge, it would be wide, yet narrow in depth and open to 3 levels above. Space would be used more effectively. A person walking in off Yonge would see a criss cross escalators immediately in front of them on the back wall. It would be very easy to get a sense of space and where one must go to reach the level/store they want to go to.

This would leave the existing lobby to develop as a store. It's much larger than the Adidas store so moving them over would be attractive.

With regards to interior design, there basically is none right now. Not only are there no attractive details, the lighting is harsh and non conducive to permanence. People don't want to stay around in that kind of lighting. The Scotiabank Theatre's lobby lighting is soft and attractive. I'd like to see something of that sort here too.

What this building needs right now is an architect and an interior designer. Get that team together and throw some money into this and Entertainment Properties Trust would have a viable money maker in their portfolio.

 

[Tulse]

What this building needs right now is an architect and an interior designer.

Agreed -- it's not so much that the building isn't salvageable, it's that no effort was put into its interior. The only major structural issue is the bizarre decision to separate so widely the up and down escalators on the upper food court floor, which makes moving through the building seriously confusing.

 

[DTowner]

What is up with the anti-HMV sentiment of this thread? HMV is the ONE store I do NOT want to see go. Lol. It's the best HMV in the city and it is always busy. In fact, it and Futureshop are the only shops I bother with in that 'mall'. A Walmart, Target? In the downtown core? NO. Then there is the ridiculous (and ugly; yes, UGLY) Dundas Sq (a waste of space). As for Ryerson taking it over — it's bad enough they took over the SAM spot (a huge mistake in my opinion). A hotel (as mentioned above) like the W would be amazing as would be getting rid of that pointless Adidas store.

 

[Red October]

What is up with the anti-HMV sentiment of this thread? HMV is the ONE store I do NOT want to see go. Lol. It's the best HMV in the city and it is always busy. In fact, it and Futureshop are the only shops I bother with in that 'mall'. A Walmart, Target? In the downtown core? NO. Then there is the ridiculous (and ugly; yes, UGLY) Dundas Sq (a waste of space). As for Ryerson taking it over — it's bad enough they took over the SAM spot (a huge mistake in my opinion). A hotel (as mentioned above) like the W would be amazing as would be getting rid of that pointless Adidas store.

Dundas Sq. is not a waste of space. One thing every city needs are public squares, and that is one of the busiest. Ergo, not a waste of space.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think ultimately 10 Dundas East despite its many issues has made its anchor tenants pretty happy. AMC, FutureShop and Jack Astors/Milestones seem to do very very well.

In the future, it's probably best to look at other sites around the square that could be redeveloped, especially on the east side. The Imperial Pub site, for example, may give way for something more tourist-friendly.

 

[sixrings]

Dundas square could with a few tweaks be significantly better. HMV just looks ODD in direct comparison beside 10 Dundas. I think most people can agree that as much as maybe wed like it to get torn down and rebuilt 10 Dundas is here to stay. As a result why wouldnt we want the rest of the block which is basically the HMV and the old majestic Site to be consistant in design. Theres no reason a quality HMV could not open in a 10 Dundas East expansion.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It's 10 Dundas E. that looks odd (read, horrific) hulking over HMV like the monster that it is which is even more apparent now that 335 Yonge is gone.
As an aside, it'll be 20 years this summer (June if I recall) since HMV opened this location - part of which was previously the infamous Cinema 2000. In 20 years everything on the east side of Yonge from Dundas to Gould has now been demolished.