The "School District" question

[jrees]

@Bernoulli

Interesting - Blake is actually getting French Immersion in Fall 2014. I'm not sure if this is the TDSB's attempt to make the school more attractive and diversified or just because Blake had the space. Maybe a combination of both. I think they probably needed to put another class of SK FI into Ward 15 due to overenrollment of FI but it's interesting that they put it at Blake. We used to rent on Strathcona in the Blake school district before we bought our current house and the school definitely wasn't highly thought of. We live about 3.5 km from Blake now but I recently registered my child for SK FI for Fall 2014 and she was redirected to Blake. So I guess we'll be testing the school out.

My husband spoke to a friend who still lives in the area and he sent their kids to Wilkinson instead (English stream). However, I believe Wilkinson is now closed for optional attendance so more families are actually having to go to Blake.

You will LOVE it. My daughter entered JK last September and I had my reservations, rightly so, but the community is amazing! The teachers are engaged and lively. The parents care and want to see the school be the best school it can be. We moved into the pocket and had no idea it was a 'best kept secret' - I know feel that way about Blake. Kiki.... the principal, there aren't enough positive words to describe her impact in the school!
We were sad at the thought of having to move our daughter out of Blake for French - but when they announced the intro of French at Blake - we were eladed. It truly is a little gem, and I am lucky to be a part of it.

On another note, I love the quote above - 'kids needs to learn that not every kids gets an ipad for christmas'

 

[BuyNSell]

You will LOVE it. My daughter entered JK last September and I had my reservations, rightly so, but the community is amazing! The teachers are engaged and lively. The parents care and want to see the school be the best school it can be. We moved into the pocket and had no idea it was a 'best kept secret' - I know feel that way about Blake. Kiki.... the principal, there aren't enough positive words to describe her impact in the school!
We were sad at the thought of having to move our daughter out of Blake for French - but when they announced the intro of French at Blake - we were eladed. It truly is a little gem, and I am lucky to be a part of it.

On another note, I love the quote above - 'kids needs to learn that not every kids gets an ipad for christmas'

Yes and if they do they should be over 10 years old I think.

 

[Bernoulli]

You will LOVE it. My daughter entered JK last September and I had my reservations, rightly so, but the community is amazing! The teachers are engaged and lively. The parents care and want to see the school be the best school it can be. We moved into the pocket and had no idea it was a 'best kept secret' - I know feel that way about Blake. Kiki.... the principal, there aren't enough positive words to describe her impact in the school!
We were sad at the thought of having to move our daughter out of Blake for French - but when they announced the intro of French at Blake - we were eladed. It truly is a little gem, and I am lucky to be a part of it.

On another note, I love the quote above - 'kids needs to learn that not every kids gets an ipad for christmas'

Great to know! We were originally assigned to go to Earl Beatty but didn't get to the top of the waitlist until a few weeks ago. We decided to decline the spot at Earl Beatty and stay at Blake. I just felt so comfortable at Blake, plus it's a smaller school than Beatty. I also like the fact that it feeds into Earl Grey middle school - Beatty is a K-8 school, a structure with which I was slightly uncomfortable.

I just read the Blake Parent Council minutes and it looks like only 26 kids are now registered for FI at Blake rather than the 40 they had initially. I really hope they don't have to cancel the program at Blake and redirect us elsewhere.

As for iPads - my 5 year old has an iPad, haha. Tons of great educational games and I get to use it as my Kindle in the evening.

 

[zebec]

What follows is intended to be of some assistance to prospective home-buyers in Toronto. Spring is in full swing and many families are shopping for new homes. These folks may be encouraged to select the best neighbourhood in which to hunt for a home by first looking at the EQAO ratings for the schools. In my opinion, these ratings are misleading.

Trying to determine the best possible school choice can be very challenging. Beware the seductive call of school rankings based on standardized testing. They are bogus. One might do better by instead selecting the neighbourhood first, rather than slavishly aiming for a school ranked highly by the Fraser Institute. Then, one might pay a visit to the local school(s). Perhaps ask for a tour. Take note of the atmosphere throughout. Were you welcomed in the office? How were the adminstrator’s ‘soft’ or people skills? Do they strike you as being a potential good partner in your child’s learning? Try to somehow connect with the local Parent Council. Perhaps bring your child along and have them engage with students during the tour. Speaking off-site with local parents, if only for a brief moment just after 3:30 dismissal, can often provide valuable, more objective feedback. Try to find out how many teachers jumped ship to teach elsewhere this year. An unusually high number of them leaving can sometimes signal that the Principal is not as supportive as needs be. The opposite is true as well. All the above actions are easier said than done, I know. But if we regard the purchase of a home to be our single most important investment, surely seeking out more input than just the agent’s is wise. Proactive parents can take advantage of this approach to inquiring about a school’s pros and cons, rather than be conned by the EQAO game.

I will explain my qualifications to offer such an opinion. I am a recently retired teacher. During the first part of my career I was part of a team of Special Ed teachers who travelled across the city to work with students of all ages who were out of school for reasons of health, truancy or misbehaviour. Throughout those years, I visited most of the schools in the city and got to know many, many colleagues. Later in my own classroom, I taught at two of the most sought-after middle schools before eventually spending my final dozen years smack dab in the middle of the newly-hip Leslieville. Gentrification central. There, I worked in a pair of its emerging elementary schools. As well, I have lived in Leslieville off and on since the early ‘80s and since 1997 my wife and I have owned a home there. Trust me, I have a lot of experience in the school system, especially in the inner city.

Realosophy once placed a promotional sandwich board on the sidewalk. It invited passersby to ‘Come see which schools are the best!’ I cringed at the sight of it. Those ill-informed real estate agents were using EQAO results as the sole way to inform their customers. In addition, they were misleading people by posing one Leslieville area school as better than the other, simply because its EQAO scores were marginally higher. Having recently taught at both those schools, I took issue with that. Both schools feature caring, effective staffs who work hard to meet the needs of all their students. The sandwich board’s implication was wrong on several levels. As former teacher Bairu Sium notes in his recent memoirs, standardized testing does not take into account that teachers have no power over whether students attend regularly, arrive promptly, are properly fed, are healthy, have their homework complete or have been helped to read at home. No school can control whether a child has slept well or is being raised in a nurturing environment.

Whereas school ‘A’ may have slightly higher test scores, it may not have the friendly community atmosphere that most families seek. It may also have a bullying problem. School ‘B’ may have an outstanding Phys Ed teacher. Or a volunteer band instructor with an award-winning career behind them. Or a unique extra-curricular activity not offered elsewhere. Or a lovely garden. School ‘B’ might have an excellent sports coach or a great Parent Council. Each school has its own climate. Believe me, the grass isn’t always greener at the spiffier schools. That is a myth, sometimes markedly so. EQAO will never tell you that.

Parents tend to be unaware of the often overlooked fact that teaching staffs change constantly. The Principal, Vice-Principal, teachers and other personnel, may be moving on from their highly-ranked school. There are many reasons for staff to relocate: promotions; maternity leaves; transfers; leaves; layoffs and class closures. Teachers sometimes seek a school closer to their home.

I recently overheard two naive yuppies give their outlooks on some downtown schools. One commented, “Oh, those schools in Regent Park! They’re terrible and their teachers are the absolute worst of all!” This opinion had no basis in fact. I have taught at schools in upscale neighbourhoods and I have also taught in gritty, socio-economically challenged areas. The staff at each kind of school were equally talented, equally committed and just as capable across the board. There is no way that anyone could pose a staff at an upmarket school as any better than their counterparts in less fortunate areas. To suggest as much is an insult to the hard-working professionals in the latter.

Those aforementioned naïve yuppies should try to explain what real estate agents call ‘the Leslieville Effect’. How did the neighbourhood progress from having the highest rate of teen pregnancies in the GTA to become one of the most desirable areas in the city? That transition has little to do with the low EQAQ rating of the schools in the district. Please, don’t use the EQAQ ratings to judge whether or not your family should live in a particular neighbourhood. Visit the schools in the area and make your own judgement. A quality education awaits your child at any of the schools in Toronto, as long as they arrive with an attitude conducive to learning, and as long as you are willing to partner with teachers in the process.

EQAO? Egregious quackery across Ontario.

One man’s humble opinion. I am done. The End.

Cheers

Gregg LaMarsh
retired teacher
former rock drummer
feeder of birds

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

what follows is intended to be of some assistance to prospective home-buyers in toronto. Spring is in full swing and many families are shopping for new homes. These folks may be encouraged to select the best neighbourhood in which to hunt for a home by first looking at the eqao ratings for the schools. In my opinion, these ratings are misleading.

<snip>

one man’s humble opinion. I am done. The end.

Cheers

gregg lamarsh
retired teacher
former rock drummer
feeder of birds

bravo!

 

[James]

zebec, that was an excellent 1st post.

 

[zebec]

The Return of the Son of the School District topic!
What follows is again lengthy. It is intended to provide updates for those curious about the state of play at some schools mentioned repeatedly above by the original posters. I'll start with Blake PS. This school has a history of engaged and caring Principals, going back to Loell Parliament and Norm Rudd. Some of my very best friends were on staff there til recently and the rookie who replaced me after my retirement now teaches KG there. He is popular and is making a name for himself. Yo Mr. Stoch! Parents, are you considering Blake? Good call.
Leslieville PS just lost the head of their Parent Council, our long-time neighbour John. I was disappointed to see some critical comments on another real estate website forum, ones that categorized Leslieville as being 'one of the worst schools in the city'. That was misinformation. It is just not true. Leslieville has a fine staff and the coolest garden too. I used to bring our school's chess team there and the Primary Spec Ed graduates from this school often flowed through to my class for their junior years.
Morse Street's Principal Inga is retiring. She will be missed. She brought her non-confrontational style plus a much-needed infusion of positivity to a school that needed it. Ask Frankland parents about her. That was her previous posting, just a few short years ago.
*Time-out* The next time that you pass by the private school Montcrest, count the number of coloured faces that you see there.
(cont.) The last student teacher who completed their Masters in my class is now teaching at Duke of C. school. She says good things about Duke but will have to leave there in 2 days due to being too low in the seniority rankings. I also know a professional artist who volunteered at Duke this year. She too felt mostly positive about her experiences there. Duke gots a pool.
Earl Grey has some great teachers. Some of them were rookies too, when I was a rookie at Sunny View PS all those years ago. Two of my oldest colleague friends each just had their daughters graduate yesterday from Earl Grey.
At this point, I will desist from identifying schools by name, but you may wanna know:
-one school that was name-checked in original postings in this thread now features a fast-tracked Principal who was once given a lower ranking by the Teachers Union two years running while at another school. This ranking was derived from the annual 'Supportiveness Rating' that is filled out by every teacher at every school each Spring. These anonymous questionnaires feature simple questions such as 'Were you invited to participate in decison-making?' and 'How supportive of staff was your adminstration in general?' Educators respond with an answer from 1-10 (i.e. 1=not at all; 10=very much). After results are collected and tabulated by the Union, each school is thereafter given a numerical rating. Frankly, its a popularity contest. Everyone knows this and Principals who treat their staff with respect can usually count on a decent score. But do take note of those Principals who score low. Typically many staff jumps ship immediately, if not sooner (see 'teachers choosing to go elsewhere'). Apparently staff at this Principal’s original school were told by senior Union personnel that they’d ‘never encountered such a deeply-divided staff at any school in the GTA.’ The Federation had serious concerns about this then.
-a high-profile, up-and-coming Principal who once enjoyed a shout-out in a noted local glossy magazine, was himself recently heard to be shouting at staff. He did not apologize. Under no circumstances is that kind of behaviour ever tolerable and the Principal in question should be thankful that it was support staff whom he shouted at. These people are not represented by the actual Teachers Union, who would otherwise have intervened with the TDSB (see 'diminishing chances of being promoted to Superintendent').
-it is not unheard of for Senior Adminstration to become so burnt-out from their high-stress jobs that their doctors suggest a stress leave; this year was no different.
By way of concluding this over-long post, I suggest the following books for those parents out there shopping for a new home and wondering about the inner workings of schools and school boards. Each is available in our public library system. There's not a duff book in the list. I am done. The End. Cheers.
Books: 'A Journalist's Education in the Classroom' by Dave Awbrey; 'I'd Like to Apologize to Every Teacher I Ever Had' by (the) Tony Danza; 'When Jail Beats School' by Bairu Sium (all about Danforth Tech); 'The Death and Life of the Great American Education System' by Diane Ravitch; 'Beyond Vision' by TDSB teacher Victoria Nolan.
PS Principal’s Hall of Fame? In no particular order:
Mike Dowler (Queen A.)
Myrna Mather (misc.)
Gord Downward (Bloorview)
George Rowell (Cosburn)
Ellen Dahlstrom (misc.)
Tim Fitzpatrick (misc.)
Barb Burns (misc.)

 

[James]

Regarding French Immersion programs at English public schools, I was wondering if someone in the know can clarify something. Pardon me if this is trivial but I just want to confirm.

If the English public school in one's catchment area does not offer a French Immersion program, can you apply to a school anywhere outside your district which does offer F.I.? Are you put on a waiting list in this case? Or are you designated a specific school that does offer F.I.?

Referring to the following link: http://www.tdsb.on.ca/ElementarySchool/SchoolChoices/FrenchPrograms.aspx

Does this mean that all the students living in each of the English public schools listed under "Associated English Schools" can only apply to the school listed under the 1st column?

e.g. All the students living in the Adam Beck Jr PS, Birch Cliff PS, Blantyre PS, Courcelette PS and Norway Jr PS all have equal priority when enrolling into Adam Beck Jr PS for their French program?

 

[zebec]

James, I do not know the answer to your question. But if you contact the TDSB trustee for your area (or any of them actually) that person will certainly be able to clarify. Bonne chance. I am done. The end.

 

[AnnetteMeetsJane]

Regarding French Immersion programs at English public schools, I was wondering if someone in the know can clarify something. Pardon me if this is trivial but I just want to confirm.

If the English public school in one's catchment area does not offer a French Immersion program, can you apply to a school anywhere outside your district which does offer F.I.? Are you put on a waiting list in this case? Or are you designated a specific school that does offer F.I.?

Referring to the following link: http://www.tdsb.on.ca/ElementarySchool/SchoolChoices/FrenchPrograms.aspx

Does this mean that all the students living in each of the English public schools listed under "Associated English Schools" can only apply to the school listed under the 1st column?

e.g. All the students living in the Adam Beck Jr PS, Birch Cliff PS, Blantyre PS, Courcelette PS and Norway Jr PS all have equal priority when enrolling into Adam Beck Jr PS for their French program?

All of the students at the schools you list would have equal access to the French program at Adam Beck because Adam Beck is currently their designated school for that French program. If the program is over-subscribed, applicants with a sibling in a FI program at Adam Beck would have priority for a place, and then any remaining applicants would be put in a lottery for a place. Living closer to Adam Beck would not give an applicant an advantage over another student living further away but within the catchment of a school assigned to Adam Beck for that FI program. Does that make sense?
If you message me with an e-mail address I will be happy to send you links to the relevant TDSB procedure documents, contact info. for your FSLAC rep. or help in anyway I can.

 

[James]

All of the students at the schools you list would have equal access to the French program at Adam Beck because Adam Beck is currently their designated school for that French program. If the program is over-subscribed, applicants with a sibling in a FI program at Adam Beck would have priority for a place, and then any remaining applicants would be put in a lottery for a place. Living closer to Adam Beck would not give an applicant an advantage over another student living further away but within the catchment of a school assigned to Adam Beck for that FI program. Does that make sense?
If you message me with an e-mail address I will be happy to send you links to the relevant TDSB procedure documents, contact info. for your FSLAC rep. or help in anyway I can.

Thank you for the response, AnnetteMeetsJane. The bolded part certainly clarifies my initial confusion.

So I guess students outside of the larger catchment area (i.e. outside of Adam Beck, Birch Cliff, Blantyre, Courcelette and Norway, if we're using the above example) could still apply to F.I. at Adam Beck Jr PS but they will essentially be put in the placement lottery?

 

[Bernoulli]

James, there is a document published on the TDSB site every year which shows where the FI students went.

For Fall 2014: http://www.tdsb.on.ca/Portals/0/Elementary/FSL/140528 FSL 2337.pdf

You basically HAVE TO go the FI school that your home school is assigned to. You can apply for FI optional attendance but my understanding is that is very difficult to do this as most programs are full, particularly in east Toronto. You also will not get bused from your home school to the FI school unless you go to the school the TDSB assigns you to.

For example, the 4 home schools assigned to FI at R.H. McGregor are: R. H. McGregor, Presteign Heights, Parkside and Selwyn. They ended up with 87 applicants for 2 classrooms so the TDSB (as of the end of April) held a lottery of the applicants and redirected 29 students to a different FI school, Blake in this case. Each of these 29 students only remained on the McGregor FI waiting list IF they accepted redirection to the alternate school. Students that did not accept redirection went back to the English stream at their home school.

The lottery results by home school:
R. H. McGregor: 21 redirected to Blake, 7 accepted, 14 went back to the English stream at McGregor
Presteign: 1 redirected to Blake, none accepted, 1 went back to the English stream at Presteign
Selwyn: 1 redirected to Blake, none accepted, 1 went back to the English stream at Selwyn
Parkside: 5 redirected to Blake, 3 accepted, 2 went back to the English stream at Parkside

This left 10 kids redirected to Blake and on the FI waiting list at R. H. McGregor and they will be called as spots open up. The waiting list is active, I believe, until December 2014. The kids left going to Blake will be bused from their home school.

In our case, we were assigned to go to Earl Beatty for FI but were redirected to Blake. We got to the top of the Earl Beatty waitlist sometimes in May but we refused the spot. We will still get busing from our home school to Blake because the TDSB had redirected us there initially.

If you are interested in FI, it is in your best interest to just accept the redirection as the waiting lists are fairly active as parents change their mind and pull their kids from FI throughout the summer. If you don't get into FI at the school you want by September, you can always go back to the English stream at your home school because the TDSB guarantees that students in the catchment area can go to their home school English stream.

And I have obviously spent way too much time on the TDSB website figuring this out. The information is poorly filed and often you have to google to find where they are actually storing pieces of information so you can make an informed decision.

ETA: My understanding is that the lottery at R. H. McGregor did not include the sibling applicants. Those were accepted first and then the lottery was held.

 

[James]

Thanks Bernoulli, that link was most interesting and very informative. I had no idea TDSB published such a document.

I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on the TDSB website. I've explored the site many, many times searching for information which was buried in there multiple layers deep on some obscure sub-sub-page. After countless clicks to find the information, it is almost painful if I had to find it again starting back at the home page!

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Yeah, great post! Our home school is Earl Beatty - good to see that the early immersion program is so popular, although not so good that it was 100% oversubscribed this year. Is any priority given for students whose home school is the FI school?

I wonder where all the EB redirects were sent to, given that both RH McGregor and Gledhill had redirects.

 

[Bernoulli]

Yeah, great post! Our home school is Earl Beatty - good to see that the early immersion program is so popular, although not so good that it was 100% oversubscribed this year. Is any priority given for students whose home school is the FI school?

I wonder where all the EB redirects were sent to, given that both RH McGregor and Gledhill had redirects.

At EB, they accepted all the Earl Beatty home school applicants and also the Diefenbaker and Earl Haig applicants. In the information session I went to, the coordinator explained that they go school by school to offer places in FI if there is no lottery - this is to minimize the amount of busing needed. Then I'm not sure exactly what happened but it looks like most of the Kimberley, William Burgess and Chester students were placed on the waiting list, probably in that order, and redirected to Blake. Probably the Kimberley and most of the WB students made it to the top of the waiting list but I doubt the Chester students would have made it to the top of the list and will be still attending Blake. My child did make it to the top of the EB waiting list but I refused the placement and kept her at Blake because I liked the school better (and also, it feeds into Earl Grey middle school).

I believe they only have a lottery if there are more home school applicants than spots, as happened at R. H. McGregor.

And I want to qualify my comments by saying that I learned everything by either reviewing the TDSB website or attending the FI information session. So I could be wrong about the details!

Both Blake and Bowmore are new FI programs this year in the area and will be starting with SK classes.