The "School District" question

[James]

Well, it looks like Realosophy has just come out with their 2012 list of most improved school neighborhoods. Personally, while I do look at the EQAO scores and Frasier Institute rankings, I absolutely would not make my decisions on which neighborhood to live in based on these statistical reports. I find these to be lightly interesting more than anything else.

http://www.movesmartly.com/2012/11/...utm_campaign=Feed:+movesmartly+(Move+Smartly)

In summary:

1. Wellesworth Junior
Neighbourhood: Centennial Park
Grades: JK-5
Enrollment: 204
Address: 225 Wellesworth Dr
Avg. EQAO Score: 70
Avg. House Price: $345,423
% Change: +24%

2. J G Workman Public School
Neighbourhood: Birchcliff
Grades: JK-8
Enrollment: 222
Address: 487 Birchmount Rd
Avg. EQAO Score: 72
Avg. House Price: $558,779
% Change:+36%

3. St Alphonsus Catholic School
Neighbourhood: Oakwood-Vaughan
Grades: JK-8
Enrollment: 294
Address: 60 Atlas Ave
Avg. EQAO Score: 76
Average House Price: $496,273
% Change: +28%

4. Inglewood Heights Junior Public School
Neighbourhood: Tam O'Shanter Sullivan
Grades: JK-6
Enrollment: 216
Address: 45 Dempster Rd
Avg. EQAO Score: 72
Average House Price: $421,706
% Change: +31%

5. Tumpane Public School
Neighbourhood: Downsview
Grades: JK-5
Enrollment: 413
Address: 48 Tumpane St
Avg. EQAO Score: 81
House Price Average: $439,643
% Changes: +31%

6. Blessed Trinity Catholic School
Neighbourhood: Bayview Village
Grades: JK-8
Enrollment: 188
Address: 3205 Bayview Ave
Avg. EQAO Score: 76
Avg. House Price: $556,105
% Change: +33%

7. Cherokee Public School
Neighbourhood: Pleasant View
Grades: JK-6
Enrollment: 159
Address: 390 Cherokee Blvd
Avg. EQAO Score: 93
Avg. House Price: $504,701
% Change: +41%

8. Alexander Muir/Gladstone Ave Junior and Senior Public School
Neighbourhood: Beaconsfield
Grades: JK-8
Enrollment: 361
Address: 108 Gladstone Ave
Avg. EQAO Score: 87
Avg. House Price: $676,487
% Change: +35%

9. George R Gauld Junior School
Neighbourhood: Mimico
Grades: JK-5
Enrollment: 177
Address: 200 Melrose St
Avg. EQAO Score: 59
Avg. House Price: $409,587
% Change: +17%

10. Selwyn Elementary School
Neighbourhood: O'Connor-Parkview
Grades: JK-5
Enrollment: 255
Address: 1 Selwyn Ave
Avg. EQAO Score: 74
Avg. House Price: $558,957
% Change: +35%

 

[James]

I just had to throw this Toronto Star article in here. Essentially, parents go to great lengths to put their kids into a "better" school, typically located in a "better" neighborhood by faking their addresses. I certainly believe this has an affect on house prices in those sought-after neighborhoods.

http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/...ls_inspire_desperate_measures_by_parents.html

‘Best’ high schools inspire desperate measures — by parents

By:Louise Brown Education reporter, Published on Wed Feb 06 2013

There was the mother who rented an apartment so her daughter would be “in district” for popular Earl Haig Secondary School near Yonge and Sheppard.


Never mind that the flat was empty and the mother had no intention of living there; she told the principal it was cheaper to pay rent to get into Earl Haig than to pay tuition for a private school.


Then there were 15 applications for Grade 9 one year — all from the same apartment unit. “An apartment superintendent was selling false leases,” recalled Michael Smith, principal at the time. “We shut that down.”


At this time of year, as Grade 8 students apply for high school, families can get creative in trying to get their children into schools they believe are best. In a system that gives first dibs to children who live in the district, schools with good buzz can drive out-of-district families to desperate measures.


One year there were so many suspected interlopers, Smith offered an amnesty deal — admit you’re a fake and you can stay for the year. If you don’t, and we catch you, you’re out of school that day.


“You can’t blame parents for doing what they think is the best for their kids, but it’s a slippery slope,” said Smith, who recently retired as a superintendent with the Toronto District School Board.


TDSB Trustee Jerry Chadwick’s Scarborough ward has two hot schools — Sir Oliver Mowat Collegiate, near Lawrence Ave. E. in the West Rouge area, and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Collegiate, on Guildwood Parkway.


“I’ve had a number of calls already this year from parents; at some schools, they’ll do anything to get in — even pay other people to use their address.


“They’ll say, ‘I’m only one block from the boundary; it’s not fair,’ ” Chadwick said. “They’ll even use the grandparents’ address — and it’s often the kids who’ll tell you they don’t really live there.”


What makes a school popular? Part of the draw is the programs, said Chadwick. “Mowat has great 21st-century tech shops and Laurier has a prestigious International Baccalaureate program.”


But it helps that they’re both in “fairly well-to-do neighbourhoods,” he added.


“The big factor is reputation, and real estate agents walk around with the Fraser Institute report or standardized EQAO test scores.”


But typically, high test scores reflect higher-income neighbourhoods where parents with more formal education can provide their children with more academic supports.


There are good schools in lower-income neighbourhoods, said Chadwick — they’re just a tougher sell.


“Take Sir Robert Borden Business and Technical Institute; the last two principals have turned that school around; their library now has the highest circulation of any public high school in the city,” Chadwick said. But its address near Kingston Rd. and Galloway, an area that has struggled with crime, makes rebranding a challenge.


“If I could drop that school at Yonge and Lawrence,” mused Chadwick, “it would be one of the most popular schools in the city.”


All three high schools in TDSB Trustee Shelley Laskin’s north Toronto ward are over-subscribed. Between them, Northern Secondary, North Toronto Collegiate and Forest Hill Collegiate turned away some 500 students from out of district last year.


If there’s extra room, schools will let in out-of-district students, especially if they have a sibling at the school. If there are too many, “they’ll hold a lottery,” Laskin said. The deadline for applications was Feb. 1 and schools have until Feb. 14 to send out letters of yes or no.


North Toronto has spanking new digs, Northern has everything from gifted programs to special education, biotechnology and advanced placement courses, and Forest Hill has a sterling academic cachet. They’re all on TTC routes and all in leafy, middle-class neighbourhoods.


“They’re blessed by geography,” said Laskin, “and sometimes parents who can’t afford houses in certain neighbourhoods have the idea of their kids going to school there and meeting different kinds of kids.


“But there are also schools in other neighbourhoods that are fabulous but they’re not seen that way. Is it fair? No,” said Laskin, who dreams of a system where students moved from school to school over their high school years, “to switch it up so socioeconomics don’t determine a student’s future.”


Until then, some parents have told Laskin “they’ll die” if their children don’t get into a particular school.


Joanna Friedman’s son lived in the Vaughan Road Academy area near Eglinton Ave. and Oakwood, “but, without saying it’s a sketchy neighbourhood, there are some issues.”


He wanted to go to Forest Hill Collegiate instead, she told the Star’s Alex Ballingall Tuesday, “because it’s perceived to be a good school . . . It’s a total issue.”


In the end, he got into Forest Hill, where he finished Grade 11 last year and left to take Grade 12 in the United States.


“To find a good school that your kid wants to go to,” said Friedman, “all I can say is you do what you have to do.”


One Cedarvale neighbourhood parent said she got her son into Forest Hill by faking a separation from her husband and saying she had moved in with her mother, who lives in the Forest Hill Collegiate area. She even had her ID changed.


“I knew it was wrong,” said the woman, who asked not to be named. “I used to say to the kids, ‘You’re going to get your education, but your mom’s going to rot in jail.’ ”


With files from Alex Ballingall

 

[nasdaddy]

And just to balance out some of the "opinions" in this piece of "journalism" from The Star:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/lett...02/11/nothing_sketchy_about_vaughan_road.html

Re: ’Best’ high schools inspire desperate measures from parents, Feb. 6

Reporter Louise Brown quotes a mother’s perception that the Vaughan Road Academy neighbourhood is “sketchy.” As a resident of Vaughan-Oakwood since 2004 and teacher at Vaughan Road Academy since 1999, I am sick of this characterization.

It is a mixed-race, mixed-income neighbourhood — rapidly gentrifying — where shopkeepers know your name, neighbours sit on their porches, and kids play in the streets. Property values have more than doubled in the last decade. I couldn’t afford my own house today.

Vaughan Road Academy is an excellent school with many famous and accomplished alumni, high academic expectations, and (ahem) some great teachers. In addition to the demanding International Baccalaureate program, we also have the Interact program for students who have professional careers. Our students are among the best in the country.

We also have a large working-class and non-white immigrant population, and this, I fear, is what too often lies behind words like “sketchy.” Our student population is less white than it used to be, but no less bright, hard-working, or fun to teach. Yes, there are gangs and some kids do drugs, get into fights and run into trouble, but there are gangs, drugs and fighting at every school, even so-called “good” ones.

When Forest Hill Collegiate student Mariam Makhniashvili went missing in 2009, there was no rush among parents to pull their kids out of that school and no labelling of the neighbourhood as “sketchy.” Yet when an incident happens in Vaughan-Oakwood that has nothing to do with our school, we get branded. I’m tired of the double standard. I encourage you to actually get to know the Vaughan Road Academy community rather than reinforcing the misperceptions and stereotypes that are too often levelled against it.

Jason Kunin, Toronto

 

[uptownto]

There was the mother who rented an apartment so her daughter would be “in district†for popular Earl Haig Secondary School near Yonge and Sheppard.

Never mind that the flat was empty and the mother had no intention of living there; she told the principal it was cheaper to pay rent to get into Earl Haig than to pay tuition for a private school.

While I don't like this kind of behaviour, the ways the district boundaries are drawn up are at times senseless and need to be examined for fairness. Earl Haig in particular has a messed up boundary because of the new development on the east side of Yonge the last few years. They don't allow new development kids in and instead they have to go further east to Don Mills (10 min drive). A lot of these kids are probably a 5 min walk to Haig and no other high school is closer. Maybe the mother was in such a situation.

Why not move the Bayview Village kids to Don Mills when redrawing the boundaries? No one should expect to have a particular school based solely on address and its history. Boundaries change, and they should change in a way that makes sense for minimal travel and commuting.

Priority should be given to the student who lives closer to the school AND if such a policy forces a boundary change then students whose boundary has changed can only attend said school if they are already enrolled, or have siblings that go there.

 

[James]

In areas of rapid and intensive development, it probably does make sense to modify the school district boundaries. For those who already live in that specific neighborhood, they will probably have to be "grandfathered" into the older boundary system while newer households moving into that neighborhood will have to follow the revised boundaries.

 

[uptownto]

For those who already live in that specific neighborhood, they will probably have to be "grandfathered" into the older boundary system while newer households moving into that neighborhood will have to follow the revised boundaries.

I would make it "For those who have already enrolled children in that specific school, they will probably have to be "grandfathered" into the older boundary system while newer households moving into that neighborhood will have to follow the revised boundaries".

School catchment for sure has a big impact in home prices, probably even how neighbourhoods evolve. Which is somewhat strange. Schools open, close, or redistrict pretty often and what school you get to go to doesn't come with your property deed. But there's always controversy when these things happen and property values are the main unspoken reason. Can you imagine if hospitals were subject to the same rules?

But back to Haig, it seems like the problem is more than just the condos as the new condo kids have been excluded for like a decade now already (was supposed to be short term). There's just a population boom there not related to new development so the problems are more complex and the area will likely see more redistricting. But at first glance from a logistics and cost point of view, seems kind of dumb to subject families and taxpayers and commuters to busing (in an already traffic congested area) when there appear to be schooling options just steps away.

 

[UserNameToronto]

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, or this one: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/19165-School-districts?p=761882

Real estate agent’s school opinions spark firestorm in GTA

GREG MCARTHUR , The Globe and Mail , Published Sunday, Sep. 08 2013, 9:48 PM EDT , Last updated Sunday, Sep. 08 2013, 11:43 PM EDT

She’s a real estate agent who calls herself Mississauga’s “#1 schools advisor,” a trusted hand for parents who want the best education for their children. But the Peel District School board says she has offended teachers, principals and students in a quest to attract business.

Meet Susi Kostyniuk, who promotes herself as part saleswoman, part statistician – a cross between jeweller Russell “The Cashman” Oliver and pollster Nate Silver. Her website, Susihomes.com, is replete with what she calls data-derived assessments, sometimes harshly delivered, of the performance of every public and Catholic school in the suburb of Mississauga, and many other suburban communities west of Toronto. (Take, for example, her view of Brian W. Fleming Public School: “Quite obviously, there are better odds for your children probably anywhere in Mississauga.)

Although it’s not unusual for real estate agents to post test scores on their websites, Ms. Kostyniuk, has gone two steps further, devising her own methodology for ranking schools and then offering her candid opinions, often on video. Her system, she says, is supposed to take into account socio-economic factors to make the rankings fairer, but instead she has sparked a firestorm on websites popular with educators. While she is applauded by the likes of the Fraser Institute for trying to measure school performance, lawyers with the Peel District School Board are discussing how they can persuade her to cease and desist publishing her ranking system. “I think we’re going to appeal to her sense of good taste and respect and ask her to not do this to our schools,” said the board’s director of communications, Brian Woodland.

Ms. Kostyniuk declined to comment for this article, citing a barrage of complaints that she received after her website was recently featured on a Facebook forum for Ontario teachers, We Are the Frontlines in Education. “I’ve been up all night responding to them. It deterred my focus, focusing on my clients,” she said Sunday.

Her rankings rely primarily on the standardized tests administered by Ontario’s Education Quality and Accountability Office, but with a few twists. In an effort to identify underrated schools, she created what she calls the Teacher Difficulty Index.

While filming herself in promotional videos outside many of Mississauga’s schools, she says she encountered teachers and principals who revealed to her the four main factors that make a teacher’s job more difficult: lower household income levels, parental education, the number of single parent households in the neighbourhood and the number of ESL students. She purchased data about these factors from a polling company, and using a formula – she previously worked as a geomorphologist, her website says – came up with a list of schools that she believes are environments where it is more difficult to teach. From there she developed a “potency list” – schools that perform better than they should given the socio-economic factors in their neighbourhood.

Though he could not delve deeply into the accuracy of her methods, Peter Cowley of the Fraser Institute, said people like Ms. Kostyniuk should be applauded for trying to measure the performance of schools. The institute, a Conservative think tank, publishes an annual ranking of schools in Alberta, British Columbia, Quebec and Ontario based on their standardized test scores.

“There’s a substantial need from parents for information about how schools do as it relates to where they want to live,” said Mr. Cowley.

But many teachers and Mississauga residents who live in neighbourhoods that received poor rankings disagree – especially over what Ms. Kostyniuk says constitutes a difficult teaching environment. One online commenter, Mark Newby, an executive at a footwear company, said in an interview that, as a divorced father, he found her criteria “incredibly misguided.”

“That comment about single parents, the suggestion that the children would be different from any other kids, was incredibly insulting,” Mr. Newby, 43, said.

 

[TORealtyBlog]

Kudos to this Realtor for going above and beyond to provide a new perspective on the school ranking system. It is certainly important for parents to know that underrated schools have some of the brightest students. Some underrated schools also do all they can to enhance the learning experience of its students - I remember in 2005, Central Technical School started the LAWS program to teach the students about their rights and guide them toward legal careers. The program has successfully fostered students who consistently graduate and go onto to higher education at top Toronto universities.

 

[James]

I thought I'd add a link to the Globe and Mail article from about a week or so ago relating to school districts. This is part of their Wealth Paradox series of articles looking at income gaps and the ways it can affect how we live. Case study 1 is postal code M1N 2T2 on Courcelette Road in the Fallingbrook (Birch Cliff) neighborhood of Scarborough, where homes are easily over $1M. Case study 2 is about 10km away from case study 1 at postal code M1P 3N7 near Midland & Ellesmere in the Midland Park area. The homes here are in the $500k range. Now keep in mind, this 10km is quite some ways away and these 2 neighborhoods are very, very different in nature. It would've been more pronounced if the article focused on 2 adjacent neighborhoods of varying socio-economic backgrounds. Nonetheless, still an interesting read.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ncome-and-education/article15463950/?page=all

 

[LenoreCLW]

I've always been a firm believer of looking at the stats yourself if you have the inclination (and the time). Visiting a site like the Fraser Institute directly gives you zounds of data to sift through, but there is also a handy drop down menu so you can narrow your search down to your own postal code if you want:
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/report-cards/school-performance/ontario.aspx

There's a lot to be said for having parents who care enough about your development that they spend a lot of energy and and time trying to put their child's best interests first. being a parent who cares and nurtures your children's interests and hobbies likely goes a lot further than going to the school with the highest math scores. According the Fraser institutes rankings I went to the worst rated high school in my home town (#597 out of 725 HS's in Ontario), and my elementary school is no longer in existence (which goes to show how highly it was rated). I now hold an Honours degree from Queens and a Masters from UofT. Whether I think those degrees and academic performance are top indicators of success doesn't change the fact that if you are one who measures success in academic achievements, graduate degrees are a good indicator.

As I consider my own children, and their future schooling, I mainly focus on that thought. That we will do our research, and help give our children a leg up however we can. But, in the end, the fact that we are willing to do that, and are caring enough to put energy and thought into these decisions means that we are already giving our children a better shot than most.

 

[James]

What I'd like to determine is the percentage of children in the sought-after school neighborhoods who actually go to private school as compared to the figures for children in the less sought-after school districts.

As good as some good school districts are, they're also in neighborhoods where the family household income is well above the average, meaning they likely have opportunities to go to private school if they so choose.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What I'd like to determine is the percentage of children in the sought-after school neighborhoods who actually go to private school as compared to the figures for children in the less sought-after school districts.

As good as some good school districts are, they're also in neighborhoods where the family household income is well above the average, meaning they likely have opportunities to go to private school if they so choose.

Not private school, but as we love Cabbagetown and will never sell our semi, but not the schools, we send our kids to an Extended French program in the Beach(es).

 

[ponyboy]

What I'd like to determine is the percentage of children in the sought-after school neighborhoods who actually go to private school as compared to the figures for children in the less sought-after school districts.

As good as some good school districts are, they're also in neighborhoods where the family household income is well above the average, meaning they likely have opportunities to go to private school if they so choose.

Good school districts -- Many neighbourhoods have a good primary school, but not-so-good secondary school (or vice versa), so it is difficult to easily assess this. We live in the Annex Area, with lots of good primary schools, but some high schools that are not great.

Fortunately for parents who cannot afford to purchase, all they have to do is have a legal residence (rent) in the neighbourhood when their child enters the school, and they will be allowed to stay even if the family later moves outside the boundary (continuity policy), as long as they remain in the TDSB area. The negative consequence of this is that their child does not live in the same neighbourhood of their peers, which can suck for them socially, but they will be able to go to the better school, and still probably live reasonably near in a cheaper area.

 

[js97]

Interesting example is Montcrest (on Broadview, south of the Danforth) between 2 highly rated Jackman and Withrow public schools, Montcrest is packed during drop-off and pick up times. At 25K+ for Kindergarten it's a pretty exclusive group of kids.

 

[AnnetteMeetsJane]

Interesting example is Montcrest (on Broadview, south of the Danforth) between 2 highly rated Jackman and Withrow public schools, Montcrest is packed during drop-off and pick up times. At 25K+ for Kindergarten it's a pretty exclusive group of kids.

Hate to say it but... There are issues around the balance between French immersion and English tracks at both those schools. They are 50/50 split dual-track, and the perception is in dual-track schools that the bright kids choose French and the rest end up,in English. I bet that a good proportion of Montcrest parents want English as an instructional language for their kids, but they don't want them in a classroom with a higher proportion of children with Special Education needs.