News   May 03, 2024
 990     1 
News   May 03, 2024
 600     0 
News   May 03, 2024
 288     0 

The election drums are beating again...

  • Thread starter Unknown </username> <dateline>1118788320</date
  • Start date
afransen:

The funny thing of course is only tax cut for large corporations were postponed - and how it was spinned into some broad based attack on businesses (considering the tax reduction was never in the Liberal platform in the first place).

GB
 
Layton has a chance. While the conditions aren't nearly as favourable, he could get a bit of what I'll call the "Rae Boost." Obviously not enough for a government, but good for a significant increase in seat numbers. Many Liberals are disgruntled, and Layton has at least a chance of attracting these floaters. Most of them have likely voted Liberal consistently with the exception of 84 and possibly 88. That could mean that they'd go for a protest option, like the NDP, rather than an alternative government like the Conservatives since they might still consider themselves Liberals at heart. Ontario in 1990 had a somewhat similar situation. Voters were angry with the Liberals for Meech and the early election call, but were tilting left rather than right. There are huge differences, however. Rae came off as extremely polished, professional, articulate and intelligent. Essentially first-minister material. I think many people viewed Peterson as arrogant, and Rae made an excellent, more humble substitute. First, the bad news. Unfortunately, Layton doesn't share most of these characteristics. He has an unfortunate penchant for stunts and hyperbole, and many see him as a radical. Canada is far more diverse than Ontario, and even the province will never elect someone identified as being from Toronto. Even Rae was from the suburbs (York Centre). Layton is clearly a Downtown Toronto man, and that likely cost them some of those Saskatchewan seats. Ontario also doesn't have a region with nearly a quarter of the population that will never deliver more than one or two NDP seats. Most importantly of all, in 1990 the Tories were not a factor at all. They had an unimpressive rural extremist for a leader that didn't project any of the values that Ontarians supported. His name was Mike Harris. Sure enough, they came a distant third. By contrast, the federal Conservatives are much more of a factor than the NDP. In fact, they are the most likely next government. Obviously, left-leaning voters, particularly traditional Liberals, will vote strategically to avoid a Harper Conservative majority government. They will remember the vote-split in 1988 delivering Brian Mulroney his second majority.

What Layton needs to do is establish personal credibility. He needs to be a man that is moderate, reasonable and articulate but also has a certain charisma that prevents him from fading into the background like Alexa McDonough and Audrey McLaughlin did. Many think that Rae won the 1990 debate, and he was an unquestionably good orator. Layton didn't manage that in 2004. He doesn't need to play to his base. There's no way they're going to jump ship now. What he needs is to go after the Liberal disgruntled by scandal and also the (Progressive) Conservative disgruntled by extremism but unwilling to touch the scandal-ravaged Grits. Rae established his credibility by being a partner in government rather than sniping from the outside. He gave Peterson some of the 85-87 government's most popular policies. If Layton can continue to show himself rising above the fray, that'll definitely help. He can't do things like denouncing the Clarity Bill that will get him labelled a radical and even stir divisions within his own party, as was demonstrated by Blaikie's public opposition. He has some significant assets. He's functionally bilingual, he's certainly intelligent, and I think most people think he's pretty honest, too. That's far from a bad combination.

You need to think in terms of seat pickups, though. Where can he win his seats? The NDP is incredibly weak among immigrant communities. They'd have a hard time turning that around in one campaign, but they can give it a try. That could help them win many more seats in urban areas. The Maritimes obviously won't be as receptive to Layton as they were to McDonough and they don't have a strong NDP tradition, but his policies are certainly attractive to people in that region. He can build on McDonough's base, perhaps with a even-more-sweetened equalization deal. A real good strategy for Quebec would be to push hard for EI reform. Interestingly, that's a huge issue there that doesn't even make it onto the radar in English Canada. The federalist party that will "fix" EI could be a saleable product. Northern Ontario might deliver a couple of seats, as could some cities like Hamilton and Oshawa. Many Toronto area seats have Liberal majorities so strong that it would take a sweep of 1984 proportions to dislodge them. The NDP isn't a factor in most of the 905. There are still some great opportunities, though. Layton didn't deliver the downtown seats everyone expected last time. That situation may not repeat itself. Obviously Liberal support is lower than it was in 2004. More importantly, the NDP campaign teams were somewhat cocky last time and expected easy victories in Trinity-Spadina, Beaches-East York, Parkdale-High Park and some other ridings. It didn't work out that way, and this time they can be counted on to fight much harder. Still, the NDP can't win many seats in Toronto without breaking into the immigrant communities which are the bedrock of Liberal support. Most interestingly, though, the NDP could benefit from a reverse vote split. In many ridings, right-leaning Liberals and immigrants angry about same-sex could bleed off to the Conservatives. The NDP could come up the middle in a number of cases. Finally, some strong Toronto-area Liberals might not run again next time. The prairies are probably pretty much a write-off. I doubt they'll get back any of their Saskatchewan seats, and they don't have too much room to grow in Manitoba, either. Even more lucrative than Ontario, though, could be BC which is filled with 3- and even 4-way races. While Liberal support rose significantly in that province last time, the polls suggest that it has dropped back down again. This will give them more comfortable wins in places like Burnaby-Doublas and could deliver several Conservative Vancouver-area seats and others like some of the island ridings, Dewdney-Alouette and Jim Gouk's riding (the name escapes me). Liberals like Keith Martin could fall, too. Altogether, a well-run campaign with the strong individual candidates that the NDP is known for, coupled with some lucky breaks could deliver the NDP dozens of new seats. Remember that the first-past-the-post system may keep a party in the doldrums for a long time, but once a certain threshold is past they could see an explosion in the number of seats they win.

My two cents worth, I guess.
 
Liberals and Conservatives tied in latest poll

CTV.ca News Staff

A new poll shows that if an election was held today, the Liberals and the Conservatives would be neck-and-neck in the race for national support. The numbers show a boost for the Liberals in the past week, indicating a recovery from bombshell news from the sponsorship inquiry.

In the total sample of the poll, conducted for CTV and The Globe and Mail by The Strategic Counsel, Liberals are polling at 30 per cent and the Conservatives trail close behind at 28 per cent. That two percent gap is within the poll's margin of error, meaning the parties are statistically tied.

The NDP are at 18 per cent in this new poll, and the Green Party is at 10 per cent.

In Quebec, the numbers are less encouraging for the Liberals: They have 16 per cent support, compared to 55 per cent for the Bloc Quebecois and nine per cent for the Conservatives.

Timothy Woolstencroft, a managing partner with The Strategic Counsel, said it's clear that anger in Quebec over the sponsorship scandal has hurt the Liberals. However, if an election were held today, he says these poll numbers suggest the Liberals would continue to hold onto a minority.

"It will look like an even more fragile minority government, but clearly probably with the Liberals holding the lead over the Conservatives," Woolstencroft told CTV's Canada AM.

"There is no party that clearly has any kind of real opportunity to form a majority government."

Meanwhile, the Bloc Quebecois's grip in Quebec is getting tighter, and tighter, according to pollster Allan Gregg. "And the federalist forces appear to be in complete disarray."

Nationally, the numbers indicate Conservative support has weakened in the past two weeks, after a surge during the worst of the sponsorship inquiry revelations.

"In two weeks, as the news agenda shifts away from corruption to now election timing, they are now on the wrong side issue, and their support falls," Gregg said.

The polling was done between April 24 and 27, starting three days after Prime Minister Paul Martin's televised speech last Thursday. That's when he pleaded with Canadians to await the results of the sponsorship inquiry later this year before judging the actions of his government.

Canadians seemed to take kindly to Martin's suggestion. According to the poll, 61 per cent felt Martin's offer to call an election within 30 days of receiving the sponsorship inquiry report was reasonable. Another 33 per cent felt the offer was unreasonable and six per cent said they did not know.

And here is the polling response to the opposition's main pitch, in response to the question: "Likelihood to vote for the Conservatives if they forced an election:"

* 12 per cent more likely to vote for them
* 21 per cent less likely to vote for them
* 62 per cent has no impact either way

In rating the performance of the government, 14 per cent rather the Liberals either excellent or good, 25 per cent rated them average, and 45 per cent chose poor or very poor.

But Paul Martin received a better score from the same poll, with 19 per cent of respondents rating his performance as excellent or good, 38 per cent saying average, and 38 per cent saying poor or very poor.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper's numbers are almost an echo of Martin's: 20 per cent rate his performance as excellent or good, 39 per cent saying average, and 26 per cent saying poor or very poor.

Woolstencroft said that if there is an election, the challenge for Harper is to provide Canadians with a Conservative vision, an agenda -- particularly in voter-rich Ontario.

"They are going to have to say and put out policies and programs that are going to be more in tune with what those people are expecting from their government of Canada."

And how solid are voters about their choices? Of people who might switch their choices, according to the poll:

Liberals who might switch their vote
Current Liberals who might switch to Conservatives: 7 per cent
Current Liberals who might switch to NDP: 11 per cent

Conservatives who might switch their vote
Current Conservatives who might switch to Liberals: 7 per cent
Current Conservatives who might switch to NDP: 8 per cent

Bloc Quebecois who might switch their vote
Current BQ who might switch to Liberals: 1 per cent
Current BQ who might switch to Conservatives: 3 per cent
Current BQ who might switch to NDP: 3 per cent

These numbers show voter volatility, much more than one would have seen in a federal campaign 10 or 15 years ago.

"It's an entirely different game," says Gregg. "If you were eight points ahead you couldn't lose, if you were eight points behind you couldn't win. Today we're seeing polls move 15 points in two weeks."

Polling details: This poll was conducted for CTV and The Globe and Mail by The Strategic Counsel. Telephone interviewing was conducted between April 24th and 27th, 2005. The weighted nation-wide sample is based on 1,000 which yields a margin of error of 3.1 per cent 19 times in 20. (Note: Proportions may not sum to 100 per cent due to rounding.)

Friday night on CTV: Strategic Counsel polled on various aspects of Paul Martin's speech to Canadians last week, and how the public responded to it.
 
Most importantly of all, in 1990 the Tories were not a factor at all. They had an unimpressive rural extremist for a leader that didn't project any of the values that Ontarians supported. His name was Mike Harris. Sure enough, they came a distant third.

I'd say it wasn't the "rural extremist" thing that did the Tories in, as much as the continuing post-Larry Grossman disarray and the Mulroney-kryptonite quality to the "PC" label. And still, Harris won more seats in 1990 than Grossman did in 1987...
 
excellent assesment, unimaginative. i do think that in toronto ridings some of the ndp performance will depend on which liberals run again. i think that if bill graham, for example, decides not to give it another go the race in toronto centre will be blown wide open. but if he does, his (massive) personal charisma will probably deliver another 10 000-plus vote victory.
 
To be honest, I see the NDP as kind of like the Bloc, in that nationally there total support is sort of capped. The NDP, in their current form, aren't ever really going to break-out of the 15-25% band width. This election their national polling numbers may translate into a few more seats due to Liberal weakness, but they are still perceived as a left wing party (while the Liberals are centre-left) and so 4 out of 5 voters, sensibly, wont vote for them. In order to substantively change their electiblity, they would have to substantively change what their party is about. They could pull a New Labour a la Tony Blair - but then they wouldn't be the NDP anymore would they? (can you see Jack advocating an invasion of Iraq?). More likely they could sell themselves as more in line with some of their more moderate provincial cousins (Manitoba/Saskatchewan), but those parties have gone to the centre and broken with their interest-group and Union ties - and if the presence of Buzz Hargrove dictating his terms at our York Hotel Budget is any indication the Federal NDP is just not ready to cut that chord yet. Same for the Conservatives, who have to reform themselves from their Aliance roots, as it leaves them virtually unelectable to Central Canada. Ironically, they can only do this by turning into the old Paul-Martin Liberals (back when he was the deficit-slayer).

What is interesting about politics in Canada right now is how much room at the centre there is. Most Canadians still view the Conservatives, probably accurately, as a right-wing party - as opposed to a centre-right party. Which is why it is sort of bewildering that the Liberals appear to be striving to win the NDP voters (more spending, non-economy focused) when it would seem there is more electoral room on the right. So I think the first one to get to the middle is the next majority, but it is also my personal opinion that both the current leaders can't move the elecorate's perceptions much. Given the Gomery situation, I think that it is pretty unlikely you will see a Liberal minority turned to a majority, but the likely hood of a Conservative majority is not too much better. Another minority situation will lead to some angry citizens and both leaders will likely see a lot of pressure from their people to be replaced. Which is probably for the best as the country seems ripe for some new, fresh-faced leader to sweep us off our feet with a some sensible vision for our country - trouble is, I just dont see him or her out there in either party.
 
Oh I absolutely agree, adma. Mulroney was probably the biggest reason for the Tories dismal showing. Their general disarray was certainly a factor too. The increase in seats under Harris was probably more to do with a general flight from the Liberals after their crushing 1987 victory. I'd say Grossman was probably still the more popular and electable leader.
 
Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threads


(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threadsticky>
<poll></poll>
<username>

Unknown


</username>
<dateline>1118788320</dateline>
<title>Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)
 
Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threads


(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threadsticky>
<poll></poll>
<username>

Unknown


</username>
<dateline>1118788320</dateline>
<title>Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)
 
Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threads


(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threadsticky>
<poll></poll>
<username>

Unknown


</username>
<dateline>1118788320</dateline>
<title>Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)
 
Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threads


(This post is missing and can not be restored)</pagetext>
</post>
<post>
<thread>N</thread>
<threadtitle>The election drums are beating again...</threadtitle>
<threadviews>0</threadviews>
<threadsticky>0</threadsticky>
<poll></poll>
<username>

Unknown


</username>
<dateline>1118788320</dateline>
<title>Unknown</title>
<pagetext>(This post is missing and can not be restored)
 

Back
Top