The Condo Game [CBC Documentary]

[TOperson]

In theory you could take a loss of course. In reality, where in the Toronto condo market is this happening? If this doomsday scenario is as common as you propose, it must be affecting a large portion of the condo resale market. If this were true, Toronto wouldn't be the world capital of condo speculation.

"Some" of them very well may not be, but we are talking about the Toronto rental market...which is. And I'm in the professional landlord business, so I'm not making anything up.

You can keep on tap-dancing all you like. I don't expect you to acknowledge it, because it brings down your whole house of cards.

The truth is, the potential for issues or worse case scenarios exist in theory, but in reality, it isn't the doom and gloom you predict.

You should definitely look at the links I posted upthread, one from right here on UT. If between those links and the documentary you still think a condo is a wise choice, good luck to you.

One thing though: a lot of your comments are based on the assumption that current conditions will just carry on, but even a superficial look at RE history will show you that conditions and markets ALWAYS change, and there are ALWAYS losers when they do. I remember condo-market dramas in the early 90s, and lot of people lost money on them then. Nothing protects Toronto from a repeat of that, or worse.

 

[freshcutgrass]

even a superficial look at RE history will show you that conditions and markets ALWAYS change, and there are ALWAYS losers when they do. I remember condo-market dramas in the early 90s, and lot of people lost money on them then. Nothing protects Toronto from a repeat of that, or worse.

The real estate bubble/bust of 1989 had nothing to do with mismanaged condo corps or crumbling condo buildings.

 

[TOperson]

The real estate bubble/bust of 1989 had nothing to do with mismanaged condo corps or crumbling condo buildings.

I never said it did. Dear god, your reading comprehension needs a lot of work.

 

[MisterF]

*sigh* Of course there's a building code. That means absolutely nothing. Why are some people here so bloody naive when it comes to this topic. "There's a building code so clearly builders do not cut corners and inspectors check everything...sure!" Mike Holmes is somewhere laughing his ass off.

The building code NEEDS to be improved upon, period because too many developers have shown that they will do the bare minimum and likely worse than that. With the cost cutting and sheer incompetence of some builders I think a good chunk of these glass boxes could not withstand a sizable earthquake.

Okay first off, I seriously hope for my own sanity that I’m being trolled. That said, there's some serious tinfoil hat paranoia going on here. Sure developers cut corners, but that's why the city has an army of staff whose job it is to make sure that buildings are designed and built to meet the standards in place. It's one thing for builders to cheap out on finishes, it's quite another for them to build structures that would collapse from a moderate earthquake. I can assure you that a high rise building gets quite a bit more scrutiny than a simple house.

So essentially what you're suggesting is gross incompetence or corruption on a mass scale by thousands of professionals at municipal governments all over the country, consulting engineers, developers, the provincial government, politicians, fire departments, and lawyers. And that when a tremor like the recent one near Ottawa hits Toronto, a large portion of the condo buildings would simply collapse, killing tens of thousands of people. If even a whiff of those kinds of issues were discovered it would be the biggest scandal of the century.

What kind of qualifications do you guys have to dismiss the work of qualified professionals? If what you're suggesting is true why haven't condos in Ottawa and Montreal, near where recent quakes are centred, been collapsing en masse (not to mention condos in more seismically active cities all over the world)? Are older rental buildings exempt from this fantasy?

By the way, the Building Code is improved upon and expanded every few years to address a variety of issues, balcony glass for example. Just because you don't like some of what you see that doesn't mean these buildings are going to fall down.

One thing though: a lot of your comments are based on the assumption that current conditions will just carry on, but even a superficial look at RE history will show you that conditions and markets ALWAYS change, and there are ALWAYS losers when they do. I remember condo-market dramas in the early 90s, and lot of people lost money on them then. Nothing protects Toronto from a repeat of that, or worse.

Your criticism applies to all real estate, not just condos.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I never said it did. Dear god, your reading comprehension needs a lot of work.

Well, someone's does. My only argument has been with your assertion that people are/will be losing money reselling their condos specifically based on condo buildings in disrepair, do to condos having the worst management of any form of residential real estate. The fact that markets fluctuate has nothing to do with that, nor would anyone dispute that fact.

 

[TheKingEast]

Okay first off, I seriously hope for my own sanity that I’m being trolled. That said, there's some serious tinfoil hat paranoia going on here. Sure developers cut corners, but that's why the city has an army of staff whose job it is to make sure that buildings are designed and built to meet the standards in place. It's one thing for builders to cheap out on finishes, it's quite another for them to build structures that would collapse from a moderate earthquake. I can assure you that a high rise building gets quite a bit more scrutiny than a simple house.

So essentially what you're suggesting is gross incompetence or corruption on a mass scale by thousands of professionals at municipal governments all over the country, consulting engineers, developers, the provincial government, politicians, fire departments, and lawyers. And that when a tremor like the recent one near Ottawa hits Toronto, a large portion of the condo buildings would simply collapse, killing tens of thousands of people. If even a whiff of those kinds of issues were discovered it would be the biggest scandal of the century.

What kind of qualifications do you guys have to dismiss the work of qualified professionals? If what you're suggesting is true why haven't condos in Ottawa and Montreal, near where recent quakes are centred, been collapsing en masse (not to mention condos in more seismically active cities all over the world)? Are older rental buildings exempt from this fantasy?

By the way, the Building Code is improved upon and expanded every few years to address a variety of issues, balcony glass for example. Just because you don't like some of what you see that doesn't mean these buildings are going to fall down.

You're coming off extremely naive here.

 

[doug]

but that's why the city has an army of staff whose job it is to make sure that buildings are designed and built to meet the standards in place.

You've never dealt with the building department have you?

I know of a loft conversion where the drywall demising walls aren't sealed against the ceiling, there's about an inch gap, resulting in airflow between suites. This is in addition to having no insulation in the walls. A building inspector was brought in, he saw the problem, but after explaining that because the building had already been signed off there was nothing that could be done about it. He put his hands over his ears, closed his eyes and said he didn't see a thing, and then left.
The fire marshal also had a look, agreed that it was a fire hazard and against code, but his hands were tied because the city already signed off on the building.
It's still like this today.

 

[MisterF]

You're coming off extremely naive here.

That's your response? lol. Get back to me when you can explain how Toronto is creating a catastrophe in the making that would be unprecedented in the modern industrialized world.

You've never dealt with the building department have you?

I deal with them all the time. I guess I don't have the level of cynicism towards government that a lot of people do. You're making it sound like the city is staffed by the characters in Idiocracy. They're just people doing their jobs.

I know of a loft conversion where the drywall demising walls aren't sealed against the ceiling, there's about an inch gap, resulting in airflow between suites. This is in addition to having no insulation in the walls. A building inspector was brought in, he saw the problem, but after explaining that because the building had already been signed off there was nothing that could be done about it. He put his hands over his ears, closed his eyes and said he didn't see a thing, and then left.
The fire marshal also had a look, agreed that it was a fire hazard and against code, but his hands were tied because the city already signed off on the building.
It's still like this today.

And this is going to make buildings collapse in a minor earthquake?

 

[freshcutgrass]

You're coming off extremely naive here.

Not totally buying into the coming condo apocalypse some seem to be predicting hardly translates into being naive.

All forms of housing have their inherent headaches, with plenty of anecdotal examples. But in general, the baseboards will get fixed....the window caulking will get replaced, and life will go on. And people will keep buying and selling condos, and for the most part, enjoy it. And as usual, "Buyer Beware" will continue to apply to all forms of housing.

 

[doug]

They're just people doing their jobs.

...or, in this case, not doing their job.

And this is going to make buildings collapse in a minor earthquake?

No. Why are you so hung up on earthquakes?
It will allow smoke and fire to spread, but you're obviously not concerned with that.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I guess you didn't bother readthat'sng my posts because as someone who has worked in residential construction, directly with a myriad of architects, builders, engineers, and tradespeople for 14 years I obviously don't know wtf I'm talking about.

Every fucked up thing that could never happen becauseoof the supposed failsafes you mention has always been a figment of my imagination, obviously.

I'm sorry, to me right now you sound insane....or as someone who has a vested financial interest in the industry.

I never suggested that there's a catastrophe in waiting. Nor have I even let my opinion of condos be known (the only urban home I would ever buy).

I'm telling you that, FROM REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE GOING BACK 15 YEARS, THERE IS SERIOUS ROT IN THE RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY.

You don't have to believe me, that's your choice, but you really should.

 

[SunriseChampion]

My apologies for the messed up text; my phone's keyboard software is bugging (no pun intended).

 

[freshcutgrass]

Perhaps going of the medication was a bad idea?

 

[SunriseChampion]

Perhaps going of the medication was a bad idea?

Well, it wasn't a good idea. It's resulted in 14 years of hallucinations.

PS: The anecdote doug had is a very small tip of a very large iceberg.

 

[freshcutgrass]

PS: The anecdote doug had is a very small tip of a very large iceberg.

Bigger than you think.

Humans....they're f*cked