Towered
Superstar
Slowly weaseling their way back into the area after getting decimated during Covid...
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torontowest91
Active Member
Wonder if any of the leases are cheaper with more retail space available or not.
christiesplits
Senior Member
Starbucks has taken a hit in sales.
www.ctvnews.ca
Starbucks sales tumble as customers reject high-priced coffee
Fewer people are going to Starbucks and buying drinks and food, as last quarter was Starbucks' second straight with a sales decline.
AlbertC
Superstar
Meanwhile, Tims on the other side smiling away.
From April:
www.theglobeandmail.com
From April:
Tim Hortons parent Restaurant Brands reports 18% profit boost on strong demand
Fast-food company recorded net income of US$328-million or 72 cents a share in the first quarter
www.theglobeandmail.com
Towered
Superstar
SB offers a mediocre product for high cost. If I'm going to splurge on coffee, I'm going to do it at a local indie cafe, not a sterile corporation with no character.
torontowest91
Active Member
Bc
Brew is now $7-8
bc a coldStarbucks has taken a hit in sales.
Starbucks sales tumble as customers reject high-priced coffee
Fewer people are going to Starbucks and buying drinks and food, as last quarter was Starbucks' second straight with a sales decline.
Brew is now $7-8
JasonParis
Moderator
Indeed, there once was one across the street in the federal court building.
gabe
Senior Member
Same here. But after 6 pm you're choices of indie cafes are limited. But Starbucks and Horton's are always open. I miss my college days in mid 2000s, when most if not all indie cafes were open late.
Northern Light
Superstar
Starbucks has taken a hit in sales.
Starbucks sales tumble as customers reject high-priced coffee
Fewer people are going to Starbucks and buying drinks and food, as last quarter was Starbucks' second straight with a sales decline.
Is it the high prices? Or is it just because its bad coffee?
Or maybe its both!
Along with a lack of ambiance, poor savoury food options, poor sweet food options, and general lack of atmosphere.....
Northern Light
Superstar
Balzac's (not really indy anymore, but I digress) is still 8pm'ish depending on location.
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You make a good point..........
So many things used to be open so much later, and it seems odd to me they aren't. Rent didn't go down.....
Second Cup at Queen's Quay was 24 hours
Second Cup at the HoJo/Marriott Yonge/College was open late; (11'ish?)
What was it called? GrabbaJabba? Something like that in the Beach used to be open late and have musicians on the weekends who jammed until at least 10....
just east of the creek
Active Member
Perhaps, the cost of being available for business (Labour cost and labour availability and general overhead) vs cash returns? I think you see this on other areas as well, shorter operational hours with many better than decent pubs and restaurants. And not just in Toronto either, or this continent for that matter. But it does impact a sense of neighbourhood and lifestyle.
Northern Light
Superstar
Its worthwhile speculation, and no doubt, some businesses by way of evolution in retail underway before, and accelerated through the pandemic have seen some decline in bricks and mortar volumes. The stats I track, from commercial rent to median hourly wage though don't suggest a broad-based spiral in costs.
While I can envision some pressure on business from sales sliding online, one would think this would be lower in hospitality-based business, generally, even one with a relative uptick in deliveries (unless you run a ghost kitchen, a bricks and mortar coffee shop still supplies the coffee and pastry your order on Uber Eats or such.
Additionally much of what hospitality based businesses do is provide, specifically, an out-of-home experience. Given that Toronto's population has risen by 300,000+ in recent years (City proper), and that retail square footage hasn't exploded, one would think there's inherent pressure to be bringing in $$ at every viable hour.
Has there just been a seismic shift in only 5 or 10 years away from late night activity out-of-home?
Has the decline in clubbing, late-night movies, or overnight work been so substantial as to erode demand below a minimum threshold? I don't know.
I have a suspicion that executive thinking on return (profit) per visit plays a role. But I am suspicious of whether this thinking plays out well. In movie theatres, there was a move to fewer venues
to consolidate costs and arguably improve product selection for the customer. But this reduced the geographic convenience and profile of cinemas, while also making them more expensive to keep open at all hours (a 6 screen cinema can be operated by 3 staff, but an 18-screen cinema requires six, generally, and that means you need much higher volumes to open the door.
The same line of thinking led to eliminating time-of-day discounts, where now, with many cinemas you pay the same for a ticket at 2pm on a Monday and 7pm on a Saturday. The result has been far fewer weekday, daytime customers, and Tuesday night customers, as those who were price sensitive (retired, students, unemployed etc.) disproportionately used those off-peak pricing periods. Those customers made the cinema money because the chains sold them concession at full price at any time. That's where the $$ are in that industry.
Now many cinemas don't run weekday matinees, which in turn reduces business profile, shifts movie going online etc.
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Back to Coffee Shops............I wonder if the same phenomenon isn't at play in some respects. The ticket price issue doesn't exist; there may be some cross-over though from fewer other late night shopping/dining/entertainment options and this has something of a multiplier effect. Does a customer who might have in the past gone out late not bother because there are too few options to think it would be at all fun?
Do fewer open retail businesses also contract the late night labour supply enough to also erode the late night customer base?
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Fritter
Active Member
I know this is a Starbucks thread, however just to add to the discussion on the late night hours of coffee shops, one Tim Hortons in Port Perry will return to being open 24hrs starting next week. This will be the first time this location has been open 24hrs since before Covid.
christiesplits
Senior Member
Cafes around university campuses used to be quite reliable for late hours. However, the eternal "buy something else or don't sit with your laptop for five hours" struggle could be a factor in some places closing earlier.
JasonParis
Moderator
It's funny as Tim Horton's downtown all used to be 24 hours like they are in most suburbs (at least I think they still are). That's been slowly coming to an end for a decade now.