Spadina Streetcar Track Repairs (TTC, U/C)

[ChesterCopperpot]

Spadina Avenue - infrastructure upgrades

www.ttc.ca

Work activities and locations

All work will be conducted along the streetcar right-of-way from June 23 through December:

• Overhead upgrades between King Street and Queens Quay, and from College Street to Spadina Station.
• Track renewal work at Spadina Station and enabling works for platform extension.

 

[EnviroTO]

The thing I find disappointing about this is how streetcar routes closing for long periods is somehow deemed acceptable. Nobody can imagine closing a subway that long or a freeway that long, but a streetcar... for some reason the city thinks that is completely acceptable. Why isn't it like most railway projects where temporary diversion tracks are put in place... some night overnight tracks are shifted east, some other night, shifted west, and then returned to original position. The reason is that despite spending a tonne on streetcars and tracks, the city sees it as no more important than a bus.

 

[turbanplanner]

The thing I find disappointing about this is how streetcar routes closing for long periods is somehow deemed acceptable. Nobody can imagine closing a subway that long or a freeway that long, but a streetcar... for some reason the city thinks that is completely acceptable. Why isn't it like most railway projects where temporary diversion tracks are put in place... some night overnight tracks are shifted east, some other night, shifted west, and then returned to original position. The reason is that despite spending a tonne on streetcars and tracks, the city sees it as no more important than a bus.

Especially on the queen streetcar. We have had a MINIMUM of a double digit percentage of the line out with endless detours bus substitutions etc for over a decade.

They are a lot better about it now but in the past when rebuilding tracks they didn't bother adding a turn to a 2nd direction where there used to be only 1.

 

[nfitz]

The TTC's own memos do not mention any work necessary to the track at Spadina Station. All the work will be done on the platform and to the structure surrounding it.

And yes, the overhead is being done down to College, and south of King.

So no, there is no trackwork being touched at all.

Dan

The TTC's own memo on the TTC's website says that "The TTC will also use this time to conduct critical track renewal at Spadina Station".

It seems to be reasonable to ask questions about trackwork.

Spadina Avenue - infrastructure upgrades

www.ttc.ca

 

[DSC]

Especially on the queen streetcar. We have had a MINIMUM of a double digit percentage of the line out with endless detours bus substitutions etc for over a decade.

They are a lot better about it now but in the past when rebuilding tracks they didn't bother adding a turn to a 2nd direction where there used to be only 1.

Yes, if Ontario Line was being built by/for a private company they would never have been allowed to shut Queen until the diversion streetcar route was open and they would have worked 24/7 to do so.

 

[turbanplanner]

Yes, if Ontario Line was being built by/for a private company they would never have been allowed to shut Queen until the diversion streetcar route was open and they would have worked 24/7 to do so.

And even if they did a good job, we would’ve accused them of being in bed with the government

 

[Admiral Beez]

The thing I find disappointing about this is how streetcar routes closing for long periods is somehow deemed acceptable. Nobody can imagine closing a subway that long or a freeway that long, but a streetcar... for some reason the city thinks that is completely acceptable.

I think it's because the city and TTC have the ready substitute, the bus. It's too bad they can't find a way to make the overhead wires mods while safely running the buses down the ROW.

 

[DSC]

I think it's because the city and TTC have the ready substitute, the bus. It's too bad they can't find a way to make the overhead wires mods while safely running the buses down the ROW.

There are two problems - part of the ROW is really too narrow for buses and not sure how one could string overhead wires while buses ran below - helicopters?

 

[Admiral Beez]

There are two problems - part of the ROW is really too narrow for buses and not sure how one could string overhead wires while buses ran below - helicopters?

Indeed, good points. Then we must restrict vehicular traffic on Spadina to get the buses through.

As a three decade car-driving downtowner, I know I'd be mad to drive anywhere within the below marked Yonge-Bloor-Bathurst-Queens Quay box outside of late evenings or weekends. If I have to enter this box my top three choices in order would be to walk from my home near Parliament St., bikeshare or lastly take the often-plodding TTC. The Spadina streetcar/bus is firmly within the no-go zone.

 

[EnviroTO]

I think it's because the city and TTC have the ready substitute, the bus. It's too bad they can't find a way to make the overhead wires mods while safely running the buses down the ROW.

The reason is that despite spending a tonne on streetcars and tracks, the city sees it as no more important than a bus.

So you also see these routes as no more important to a bus? Yes, they have replacement buses when the subway is shut down too. The point is that it we don't give priority to the streetcar or during construction don't seek ways to keep the streetcar running, we shouldn't get streetcars.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So you also see these routes as no more important to a bus?

I don’t think so, but at the end of the day, what’s wrong with buses? As long as there are lots of them to serve the demand.

Myself, while I enjoy the streetcar and subway (provided my fellow passengers are evidently sane and sober), I hate taking TTC buses, but much of my youth was spent in the fish bowl buses of the 1980s with their forever rattling windows and roaring engine noise. I couldn’t get my drivers license fast enough in those days.

In 2004 I interviewed for a job in Fredericton. Notwithstanding my feelings about buses, as a one vehicle family, I was pleased to see a bus stop outside the office, but when I enquired about it, my future employer laughed that only the poor, the old and students take the bus.

 

[drum118]

I don’t think so, but at the end of the day, what’s wrong with buses? As long as there are lots of them to serve the demand.

Myself, while I enjoy the streetcar and subway (provided my fellow passengers are evidently sane and sober), I hate taking TTC buses, but much of my youth was spent in the fish bowl buses of the 1980s with their forever rattling windows and roaring engine noise. I couldn’t get my drivers license fast enough in those days.

In 2004 I interviewed for a job in Fredericton. Notwithstanding my feelings about buses, as a one vehicle family, I was pleased to see a bus stop outside the office, but when I enquired about it, my future employer laughed that only the poor, the old and students take the bus.

A streetcar carries how many riders and what does a 40's and 60's using TTC standards. Now divide the all the streetcar riders and divided by the 60's numbers to see how many buses you new. You need to add another 30% to the bus numbers that are spare ratio. At the same time, that the maximum number of buses that will be used for service and multiply it by 4 that will give you the base numbers of drivers to run the line. To compare apple to apples, do the same thing for the streetcar to see how many drivers are needed. Take those 2 numbers and multiply them by $100,000 for each driver.

Now, you have a few other things to look at using buses in places of streetcars. How do you plan to load and off load riders at Spadina Station and Union Station?
Where do you plan on housing these buses since there is no space for them in the current garages as well maintain them??
How many more personnel need to be hire to service these buses daily?
Do you plan on using the existing ROW for the buses? If so, have you factor in the cost to convert the ROW to buses??

Your future employer in Fredericton is a car folk and doesn't understand transit in his city. My son and family live there and we been there a few times. The last time we were there and going from memory without pulling out the photos for the last trip, I believe there at 15 routes that meet downtown every 30 minutes a day with a few less on the weekend and some seeing hourly service. The big rush hour tie up is the 10 minutes it take to get over the river bridge when the area is not flooded that can happens a few times of the year, depending on the weather. The times I have shot the downtown station at peak time, more office workers than old folks and students.

If buses replaced streetcars in the past, why did streetcars return to Spadina again??

If you move to the east coast, its all buses out there and no train service of any kind in Federation. The station still exist as well the CP ROW, but have to go to Moncton to catch a train.

Need to visit St James to walk on the river bed for a fair distance when the tide is out and a charmingly place to visit and shop. You are not too far Fundy National Park and only 4.5 hour drive to Halifax.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you move to the east coast, its all buses out there and no train service of any kind in Federation. The station still exist as well the CP ROW, but have to go to Moncton to catch a train.

I lived in Fredericton for several years. It's a shame that the city couldn't make its passenger railway a success. Perhaps severing it from VIA and making a regional railway? Of course demand drives supply so people must use it, but I remember my meetings in Moncton, Saint John and Halifax in the winter blizzards and thinking there has to be a better way than driving. Saint John, Halifax and St. John's has streetcars until almost 1950. Shame.