Sheppard Subway Extension West?

[BMO]

I was wondering if anyone had any interesting ideas for this expansion west from yonge to donswview. An outline I thought that would be useful, would be for a stop at Bathurst then Faywood blvd, then Downsview obviously, and then past Downview to keele, then Jane and up north to Finch. or forget jane/sheppard and jsut go straight to finch from keele, since jane lrt is proposed. Many may say this is dumb, which it could very well be, but I believe it will add the much needed missing link between yonge and spadina which will be needed in the future and is already needed now considering one now has to either take a slow bus transfer accross or go all the way down to bloor subway and accross. Anywase jsut my view, i'm interested on others' points of view on this.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

The TTC pondered it ages ago and decided that it wasn't a priority. And this back in the days when they were still talking about finishing Sheppard eastbound.

Now that the talk is about whether or not the subway will be scrapped entirely and converted to LRT, I don't think there's much future for any westbound plans...

 

[smuncky]

there's been a dicussion about it in the yonge subway extension thread.

there's a suggestion in the last presentation of a piblic consultation meeting that gives an option of building to the west from sheppard to allow trains to make use of the yards.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The TTC pondered it ages ago and decided that it wasn't a priority. And this back in the days when they were still talking about finishing Sheppard eastbound.

Now that the talk is about whether or not the subway will be scrapped entirely and converted to LRT, I don't think there's much future for any westbound plans...

Actually, Metrolinx is still looking at the option of extending Sheppard over to Downsview. The only reason it's not still a TTC priority is because funding in the 90s slowed to a trickle so that no large projects were affordable (Sheppard East was always going to have a higher ridership, but only lines crossing Steeles have proven to be enduring, due to cost-sharing with and the influence of 905ers), and now that funding has been renewed, the city ditched all its previous plans and wrote new ones.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

That's interesting; I stand corrected.

I seem to recall the rationale being that Sheppard West would be good for "network connectivity" but lousy for ridership. It would be great to get connectivity to the high-density node at Bathurst (the street that the Spadina line *should* have been build under), but west of that, it's a bit of a wasteland, no?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

That's interesting; I stand corrected.

I seem to recall the rationale being that Sheppard West would be good for "network connectivity" but lousy for ridership. It would be great to get connectivity to the high-density node at Bathurst (the street that the Spadina line *should* have been build under), but west of that, it's a bit of a wasteland, no?

Network connectivity is good for ridership. But, yeah, Sheppard West would probably never be the highest ridership corridor in the system, and since the city was forced to dream about building only transit projects that were practically profitable (extending Spadina to Vaughan was "profitable" due to cost-sharing with the 905), it was easy for Sheppard West plans to stay on the shelf.

Sheppard between Downsview station and Bathurst is actually seeing quite a bit of intensification - it's the city's first real Avenueization corridor. A Faywood station wouldn't break any ridership records but it makes zero sense to condemn an extension on the grounds that a mid-concession stop may only see 5K-10K rides a day.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

there's been a dicussion about it in the yonge subway extension thread.

there's a suggestion in the last presentation of a piblic consultation meeting that gives an option of building to the west from sheppard to allow trains to make use of the yards.

Yeah, the TTC basically said they need another yard for the extensions because it's too big a loop to get trains around end-to-end. One of the suggestions for solving the problem (Aside from building a yard in Vaughan or Richmond Hill) was connecting Sheppard to Downsview so trains can get from the Wilson Yard over to Yonge very easily.

I'm not a transit planner but it seems like a real win-win to me.

 

[autopilot]

I thought about an interesting route the TTC could pursue AFTER a Shepperd connection with Downsview. The line could run south through the Wilson yard and Downsview Park and continue down Dufferin all the way to the Ex.

It would eliminate the busiest bus route in the city and provide another north-south option for riders. On top of that, it would make the Shepperd line financially sound and spur some more GTA centralized development. Throw in a DRL or Queen Subway on top and your downtown subway worries would be forgotten...

 

[Rainforest]

I thought about an interesting route the TTC could pursue AFTER a Shepperd connection with Downsview. The line could run south through the Wilson yard and Downsview Park and continue down Dufferin all the way to the Ex.

It would eliminate the busiest bus route in the city and provide another north-south option for riders. On top of that, it would make the Shepperd line financially sound and spur some more GTA centralized development. Throw in a DRL or Queen Subway on top and your downtown subway worries would be forgotten...

This is an interesting suggestion. But note that the new Dufferin subway and the existing Spadina / Allen Rd line will be very close, especially between Sheppard and Eglinton. Given that Spadina north of Bloor has quite a bit of spare capacity, the ridership needs to grow dramatically to justify a second line running that close.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Oh, and in terms of the city's priorities, I must point out how ironic it is that Transfer City slashed all existing subway projects (except those to the 905 that would have required cost-sharing) and shifted investment to Avenues, yet Sheppard West is the only suburban street actually undergoing systematic Avenueization...and since Transfer City focuses largely on streets unsuitable for Avenueization, Sheppard West will likely remain the only example of real Avenues development for quite a long time.

 

[unimaginative2]

Considering the yard issues and the length of the existing tail track, Sheppard West seems like a real no-brainer. If only they could include the potential revenue from the sale of Davisville Yard in the cost-benefit.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And if they go ahead with Sheppard West I wonder if they would build stations that accomodate 4 car trains or not. And maybe to save money the Sheppard trains could share the already existing Downsview Station.

 

[lead82]

I think if the TTC is going to extend the Yonge line north to Richmond Hill, then they need to extend Sheppard west to Downsview. This makes sense from a network connectivity point of view but also to reduce the need to build a yard in Richmond Hill.

I attended the session in North York for the Yonge extension, the options for a yard are limited to somewhere in Thornhill (not gonna happen period) or just have long tail tracks in Richmond Hill to store the trains. The only other option is Wilson yard by adding a connection via Downsview.

Sure the Sheppard West extension will not have amazing ridership, but I would argue it would get decent ridership, similar to that of the SRT. I think that the only station needed would be at Bathurst and another platform at Downsview. Faywood station would not be needed at all. There is not much at Faywood to justify a station. Downsview is a short bus ride away and the Faywood bus to Wilson is also pretty frequent. Bathurst & Sheppard is a moderate node with many apartment buildings and lots of commuters. This stop would be well used.

This extension will not long in length but may be costly because it has to cross the West Don Valley ravine. This is almost like the problem of crossing the East Don Valley ravine on Yonge for the Richmond Hill extension. I would suggest tunneling under the ravine, but as engineers would say that this would result in a deep station at Bathurst. I think that can be mitigated by building the station west of Bathurst so that only the eastern end of the station is at Bathurst. Rebuilding the bridge over the Don Valley would be prohibitively expensive, while tunneling from Senlac (where the tailtracks end now) to Downsview would be fairly cheap to do.

I'm hoping that Metrolinx chooses to pick this option if it selects to fund the extension to Richmond Hill.

I'm going to be staying tuned on this development.

 

[Rainforest]

Yes, if both Spadina and Yonge line get extended north, it strengthens the case for extending Sheppard subway to Downsview and forming a link between the two N-S lines.

I wouldn't rule out a station at Faywood though, as intensification potential seems to be there.

 

[unimaginative2]

Lead82, I think that building a bridge will be vastly less expensive than a deep tunnel under the valley.